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My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

stallman.org

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Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#71

Post by praptak »

techdmn wrote: post #43
jrs235 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, what about the fact that if the woman knew the Privacy Policy was 3000 pages and in a binder (which she claimed to be aware of) and knowingly accepts a statement she strongly believes to be untrue? Is this enough to invalidate the "contract" because it is blatantly known that full disclosure and meeting of the minds has not been met? This also comes to mind during mortgages and car loans. Often the clos…

I the first time I closed on a house, realizing ten minutes in that either I was going to be signing contracts without reading them, or everyone was going to be sitting around watching me read for three hours. There's a lot of pressure in a situation like that, even though I try never to sign anything without reading it.

I usually ask beforehand for a copy of anything I'm expected to sign. If the other party refuses, I have no qualms with sitting, reading and inquiring as long as necessary.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#72

Post by limeblack »

Had a similar scenario happen when giving blood a couple months ago. They suggested there were closing in half an hour, but insisted that I give blood anyway. They took blood samples checking iron levels and then brought me over to a desk to sign a consent form. They promptly brought out a 200 page binder, saying I was required to read it prior to signing the form.

I opened up the binder and started to read, but quickly realized it was humanly impossible to finish it the remaining time. Several other people sat down next to me planning to give blood, signing the form without even opening the binder. I figured OK well, they aren't required to read the binder, but simply agree to the terms.

What surprised me, was that a lady taking blood, promptly walked over and said skip the binder.

I understand the desire to maximum blood taken from volunteers, but something is seriously wrong, when the people taking blood encourage and purposely take blood knowing there isn't enough time for the full required procedure to be preformed.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#73

Post by gizzlon »

jrs235 wrote: post #57
mseebach wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you write is inconsequential, it's that fact that you do that is important. If you can't write (not a big issue today, but has been not too long ago), you can sign with a X. The signature itself doesn't carry a lot of weight. Signatures given under threat or deceit are void - which is why important stuff needs to be witnessed or notarized.

This. The name doesn't matter. The signing act is all that counts. Before literate times the illiterate would "sign" by simply marking an "X" on the signature line. If you are under duress you may certainly sign your signature as "Under Duress", if the accepting party doesn't harm you right away at least when you show up in court to dispute it your can point out you signed it as such... but you better be ready to pro…

Guess the point is deniability: you can claim that you didn't sign it..

of course you'd have to fool handwriting analysis..

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#74

Post by [deleted] »

jrs235 wrote: post #36
chrisacky wrote: post #4

Could you imagine at the extremes if you had been refused treatment because of your refusal to sign this document, to which you knew to be untrue, and to which they could not provide you with the policy. I studied law for four years (haven't qualified) , but I'm still not even sure on the liability on this one (if there is any at all in this hypothetical). It just shows how bureaucratic everything has become when a p…

Additionally, what about the fact that if the woman knew the Privacy Policy was 3000 pages and in a binder (which she claimed to be aware of) and knowingly accepts a statement she strongly believes to be untrue? Is this enough to invalidate the "contract" because it is blatantly known that full disclosure and meeting of the minds has not been met? This also comes to mind during mortgages and car loans. Often the clos…

[deleted]

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#75

Post by ceol »

joezydeco wrote: post #58
jrs235 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're nit picking and not focusing on the point. Regardless of the length (the lady either knew or didn't know how long the thing was) she didn't have it nor did she provide it to the gentleman to read. The office was still asking him to lie by requiring him to state he received and read something he obviously didn't receive nor read.

I'm inclined to believe this is a outlier to what normally happens and we're getting outraged over a mistake. Every time I've visited my hospital for something, the privacy policy was printed on a small brochure and handed to me along with the signature form.

Same. I've been to multiple doctors, and each time, the "privacy policy" (either a HIPAA form or something similar) was included on the paper I was signing.

That's not to say Stallman's experience did not happen, but it is certainly not the norm.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#77

Post by wtvanhest »

joezydeco wrote: post #58
jrs235 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're nit picking and not focusing on the point. Regardless of the length (the lady either knew or didn't know how long the thing was) she didn't have it nor did she provide it to the gentleman to read. The office was still asking him to lie by requiring him to state he received and read something he obviously didn't receive nor read.

I'm inclined to believe this is a outlier to what normally happens and we're getting outraged over a mistake. Every time I've visited my hospital for something, the privacy policy was printed on a small brochure and handed to me along with the signature form.

Agreed, the story doesn't make sense and seems false.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#78

Post by redslazer »

joezydeco wrote: post #58
jrs235 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're nit picking and not focusing on the point. Regardless of the length (the lady either knew or didn't know how long the thing was) she didn't have it nor did she provide it to the gentleman to read. The office was still asking him to lie by requiring him to state he received and read something he obviously didn't receive nor read.

I'm inclined to believe this is a outlier to what normally happens and we're getting outraged over a mistake. Every time I've visited my hospital for something, the privacy policy was printed on a small brochure and handed to me along with the signature form.

That small brochure was only a subset of their privacy policy. The actual policy could not possible fit onto a brochure and as the OP said the form he was signing had a summary of the policy which is similar to your brochure.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#79

Post by pessimizer »

vacri wrote: post #64
Tloewald wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallmsn didn't say it was 3000 pages long.

He did, in relating 'the story' on his website, which is why I phrased it that way.

No, he said that he was told that it was 3000 pages long, but never saw it, which was the point.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#80

Post by Xylakant »

techdmn wrote: post #43
jrs235 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, what about the fact that if the woman knew the Privacy Policy was 3000 pages and in a binder (which she claimed to be aware of) and knowingly accepts a statement she strongly believes to be untrue? Is this enough to invalidate the "contract" because it is blatantly known that full disclosure and meeting of the minds has not been met? This also comes to mind during mortgages and car loans. Often the clos…

I the first time I closed on a house, realizing ten minutes in that either I was going to be signing contracts without reading them, or everyone was going to be sitting around watching me read for three hours. There's a lot of pressure in a situation like that, even though I try never to sign anything without reading it.

In germany for certain contracts (such as buying a house or creating a LLC) it's required that a notary reads them aloud for you. That's quite a bit of fun if the contract contains annotations that make it fill a binder. There are some loopholes though: The contract may refer to another document that the notary may read to his assistant, so not everybody has to go through the whole ordeal.
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