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My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

stallman.org

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Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#51

Post by wccrawford »

dr_ wrote: post #26

The reality is, had the privacy notice been available appropriately, and had been signed, how do you know that it is enforced? Most practices are busy and run rather chaotically to think about that. By and large most medical groups do not want to share information about their patients with people who don't need it. We don't have marketers walking into our offices asking for specific patient information. We only share…

You don't know if it's enforced or not until something happens. At that point, you can sue them because they didn't follow the contract.

But then, that's how all contracts work.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#52

Post by jrs235 »

wccrawford wrote: post #42
jrs235 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, what about the fact that if the woman knew the Privacy Policy was 3000 pages and in a binder (which she claimed to be aware of) and knowingly accepts a statement she strongly believes to be untrue? Is this enough to invalidate the "contract" because it is blatantly known that full disclosure and meeting of the minds has not been met? This also comes to mind during mortgages and car loans. Often the clos…

When I bought a car, I read mine and they weren't surprised or upset. They patiently waited while I read it and initialed that I had done so.

Yeah, car loan signing wasn't as bad and the bank and credit union folks I've dealt with were surprisingly patient... they are surprised when people actually read the agreements though... I think it makes them feel better knowing the person is actually reading what they are agreeing to. Also car loans are many times less complex and have less paperwork than mortgages (thanks in part to all the additional paperwork and contract(s) needed in order to prep the mortgage so that it can be sold to fannie/freddie).

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#54

Post by jrs235 »

vacri wrote: post #41
chrisacky wrote: post #4

Could you imagine at the extremes if you had been refused treatment because of your refusal to sign this document, to which you knew to be untrue, and to which they could not provide you with the policy. I studied law for four years (haven't qualified) , but I'm still not even sure on the liability on this one (if there is any at all in this hypothetical). It just shows how bureaucratic everything has become when a p…

The privacy policy wasn't 3000 pages. Either Stallman didn't remember the story correctly, or more likely the receptionist was just making up a number to scare him off pursuing the issue. Even the thickest novels don't make it to 3000 pages; very few make it to 1000. Hell, I'd be surprised if the privacy policy hit 3 pages.

I think you're nit picking and not focusing on the point. Regardless of the length (the lady either knew or didn't know how long the thing was) she didn't have it nor did she provide it to the gentleman to read. The office was still asking him to lie by requiring him to state he received and read something he obviously didn't receive nor read.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#56

Post by itstriz »

jrs235 wrote: post #52
wccrawford wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I bought a car, I read mine and they weren't surprised or upset. They patiently waited while I read it and initialed that I had done so.

Yeah, car loan signing wasn't as bad and the bank and credit union folks I've dealt with were surprisingly patient... they are surprised when people actually read the agreements though... I think it makes them feel better knowing the person is actually reading what they are agreeing to. Also car loans are many times less complex and have less paperwork than mortgages (thanks in part to all the additional paperwork an…

The worst experience I've had with this sort of thing is under release from jail. I've been arrested 3 times for civil disobedience actions and each time on my way out the officer on duty told me to sign some papers indicating the conditions of my release, that I've received all my property, etc. Each time, when I began to read the papers before signing them, they've told me if I don't sign them without reading them, they would put me back in my cell and hold me at least another few hours.

After my first arrest, they would not release me until I signed a paper saying that I received all my property but would not let me inspect my property first. They put my bag of property on the floor across the room and said I could stand about ten feet away from the bag to look at it. Needless to say, once I actually received my bag, I found that there was property missing. Nothing of great value (a hat, a bandana), but it was still pretty irritating.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#57

Post by jrs235 »

mseebach wrote: post #48
gizzlon wrote: post #29

What happens if you just sign with a fake name? Is it still binding? They lie, you lie ..

What you write is inconsequential, it's that fact that you do that is important. If you can't write (not a big issue today, but has been not too long ago), you can sign with a X. The signature itself doesn't carry a lot of weight. Signatures given under threat or deceit are void - which is why important stuff needs to be witnessed or notarized.

This. The name doesn't matter. The signing act is all that counts. Before literate times the illiterate would "sign" by simply marking an "X" on the signature line. If you are under duress you may certainly sign your signature as "Under Duress", if the accepting party doesn't harm you right away at least when you show up in court to dispute it your can point out you signed it as such... but you better be ready to prove and show that you legitimately where under duress or the court won't accept your claim.

Re: My Doctor's Office Asked Me To Lie

#58

Post by joezydeco »

jrs235 wrote: post #54
vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The privacy policy wasn't 3000 pages. Either Stallman didn't remember the story correctly, or more likely the receptionist was just making up a number to scare him off pursuing the issue. Even the thickest novels don't make it to 3000 pages; very few make it to 1000. Hell, I'd be surprised if the privacy policy hit 3 pages.

I think you're nit picking and not focusing on the point. Regardless of the length (the lady either knew or didn't know how long the thing was) she didn't have it nor did she provide it to the gentleman to read. The office was still asking him to lie by requiring him to state he received and read something he obviously didn't receive nor read.

I'm inclined to believe this is a outlier to what normally happens and we're getting outraged over a mistake.

Every time I've visited my hospital for something, the privacy policy was printed on a small brochure and handed to me along with the signature form.

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