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How to be a good listener

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Re: How to be a good listener

#101

Post by StefanBatory »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #48

I'm no expert on listening, but I think do have a sense of when I personally feel heard. I don't agree with this piece at all, and I don't like the vibe of the author. The very first paragraph has a narcissism in it that rubs me the wrong way. Like the whole world let her down for not centering her in conversations the way her therapist caretaker did. > Some simple and powerful phrases to use when someone is feeling…

"Replace all of the shocking, mean, hateful, incorrect, ignorant, offensive, cruel things coming out of this person’s mouth with “I’m hurt! I’m hurt! I’m hurt! I’m hurt. I’m hurrrrt.”

This is narcissistic logic. When people are angry at you, and attacking you - and they do not have a clinical mood or personality disorder - you must accept that there may be a reason behind it. Things said in the heat of the moment are not always fair or measured, but they are rarely meaningless. When you decide that nothing someone is saying is valid because they are hurt, you will probably just invalidate and hurt them further."

I understand your point but I think there's actually merit to that part. Sometimes people are just mad for no reason. My mother would release her frustrations on me when I was a child whenever things weren't going well in a marriage, and I don't think whatever I did deserved that.

There is a good point in saying that there's sometime a real greviance let out in a bad form but sometimes there is nothing to this and nothing you can do or say to change their mind.

Re: How to be a good listener

#102

Post by greenie_beans »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #100
greenie_beans wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

got it: don't take interpersonal advice from somebody who has a personality disorder. especially when their advice is a piece of literature that is quite obviously a cry to be listened to. also, disregard my own judgement in the assessment of the piece of literature, and ignore my own criticism of the piece. really, just ignore the piece as a whole because of my judgements. and yes, one of my best friends has BPD and…

> and tips on how to communicate with them was the best thing i could ever do I'm interested in how you concluded the advice was so beneficial. Was it a reduction in conflict and fewer emotional outbursts from your BPD partner? A feeling that you're better able to soothe them and manage their feelings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

Re: How to be a good listener

#103

Post by bradybd »

Good post. Have found that active listening like this is extremely important within the context of feedback. Both parties need to be active listeners. It's vital for the recipient of feedback to repeat back what the giver is saying to make sure everyone is on the same page. Minor step, but has a massive impact on how feedback is perceived and acted on between parties.

Re: How to be a good listener

#104

Post by mvkel »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #64
mvkel wrote: post #21

I went through a yearlong coaching program and one of the modules was learning how to listen. Imagine a friend tells you about a situation where their dad is starting to show signs of dementia and the strain it's putting on them as a caretaker. Level 1 listening (you're focused on yourself): - "Oh my dad had dementia, too. It's awful." Level 2 listening (you're focused on them, but parroting): - "caring for a parent…

Personally, I find 2 and 3 to be creepy and robotic. 3 also feels intrusive. The conscious analysis of tone and body language is obviously important for many people to get by socially, especially for neurodiverse people or people outside the norm of the situation. However, I think it is important to avoid remarking directly on body language. You can still let these non-verbal observations guide a conversation, of cou…

This isn't party conversation. It's about observing, with both parties agreeing about the context

Re: How to be a good listener

#105

Post by mvkel »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #92
mvkel wrote: post #21

I went through a yearlong coaching program and one of the modules was learning how to listen. Imagine a friend tells you about a situation where their dad is starting to show signs of dementia and the strain it's putting on them as a caretaker. Level 1 listening (you're focused on yourself): - "Oh my dad had dementia, too. It's awful." Level 2 listening (you're focused on them, but parroting): - "caring for a parent…

Level 4: here is a check so you could hire someone to help you look after your dad.

That's level 1, making it about yourself :)

Re: How to be a good listener

#106

Post by mvkel »

vendiddy wrote: post #98
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find 2 and 3 to be creepy and robotic. 3 also feels intrusive. The conscious analysis of tone and body language is obviously important for many people to get by socially, especially for neurodiverse people or people outside the norm of the situation. However, I think it is important to avoid remarking directly on body language. You can still let these non-verbal observations guide a conversation, of cou…

I wonder if how it's done matters. Like if you are genuinely curious and non judgemental it might not come across as creepy. Of course depends on the circumstances.

Yes, exactly right. My examples were pretty bad at conveying that but it's crucial

Re: How to be a good listener

#107

Post by mvkel »

creesch wrote: post #57
poulpy123 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, and the level 1 is actually good too. I understand what it is meant but the example is terrible

I do agree. I am familiar with three levels of listening, but in a slightly different way where the three levels are more about where your focus is as a listener. Roughly it comes down to: 1. Listening but focussed on yourself, interjecting with own experiences and sometimes in the process take over the conversation with your own experiences. 2. Focussed listening but on a factual level. Asking clarifications about e…

This is a much better breakdown than my poor examples.

Re: How to be a good listener

#108

Post by sanderjd »

elevaet wrote: post #14

> 5. Don’t relate. I see this recommendation all the time, but I know I do it all the time, and personally I often _like_ it when other people do it to me. Sometimes it's nice to commiserate or share a connection on a similar experience, and maybe even learn from what the other person already went through. Does anyone else question this common piece of advice? Can't relating be useful if it's not being used to steer…

Yeah I'm skeptical of that one, depending on the context. I think relating is a critical part of normal human relationship building. How could I ever get to know someone who only ever listens to me and never relates back to themselves? They would get to know me, but I would never get to know them.

However, I do think it seems like the right advice for the orthogonal goal of being supportive to someone, either in a professional support setting (therapy, mentoring, coaching, etc.) or just if you can notice in the context of personal relationships when that's what the other person needs or would benefit from in that particular setting.

Like, if I'm just out for a normal drink date with a friend or my spouse, just chatting and shooting the shit, it would be ridiculous to never relate back to them. But if they texted me and said "hey can we meet up? I'm really struggling with my dad's illness and want to talk", then yeah, keeping myself out of it is the way to go. (Which I don't often do a good job of though... so maybe doing that more often in more situations would be good as practice.)

Re: How to be a good listener

#109

Post by CipherThrowaway »

greenie_beans wrote: post #102
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and tips on how to communicate with them was the best thing i could ever do I'm interested in how you concluded the advice was so beneficial. Was it a reduction in conflict and fewer emotional outbursts from your BPD partner? A feeling that you're better able to soothe them and manage their feelings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

It's worth reading the paragraph on BPD in that page.

Being conditioned by your BPD partner to excessively validate and center them is not the same as empathy.

Re: How to be a good listener

#110

Post by aidenn0 »

jimkleiber wrote: post #24
aidenn0 wrote: post #11

> You know the obvious no-brainer ones already—don’t interrupt, don’t look at your phone, make (frequent, but not creepily constant) eye contact, turn your body towards the speaker… These "obvious" things are so unnatural for me that doing them consumes so much of my attention that I don't actually hear anything the person is saying.

I'm not sure what you meant, you doing them or the other person doing them?

Me doing them. E.g if I'm making eye contact with you, I'm thinking about making eye contact with you, not what you're saying.
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