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How to be a good listener

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Re: How to be a good listener

#91

Post by CipherThrowaway »

greenie_beans wrote: post #85
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two things we said aren't conflicting.

it appears you took the tabloid stuff and ran with it as a reason to disregard anything she says due to mental illness. at least that's how your first comment seems. including all of your comments against her in this post, you clearly have a bone to pick and i disagree with all of them. but that's all i'm gonna say about that, except, maybe you should listen to what she has to say in the article and also read the boo…

I went by the reviews - I don't intend to read the book. Her husband believes she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Have you had a friend or family member with BPD, or another cluster-B PD?

These are clinical standards for self-absorption and toxic personality traits. In their relationships, cluster-Bs select for supplicants who will love them despite their toxicity. What you're saying about the memoir is consistent with this.

Her mental health conditions aren't a reason to disregard everything she says, but she is providing social and interpersonal advice here, in a way that is likely to encode the dysfunctional schema and disordered thinking she suffered from in life.

For an opinion piece that is about how to empathize with other people, I think it is relevant information that the author probably had a clinical impairment in their own ability to empathize with and understand others.

Re: How to be a good listener

#92

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

mvkel wrote: post #21

I went through a yearlong coaching program and one of the modules was learning how to listen. Imagine a friend tells you about a situation where their dad is starting to show signs of dementia and the strain it's putting on them as a caretaker. Level 1 listening (you're focused on yourself): - "Oh my dad had dementia, too. It's awful." Level 2 listening (you're focused on them, but parroting): - "caring for a parent…

Level 4: here is a check so you could hire someone to help you look after your dad.

Re: How to be a good listener

#93

Post by robaato »

This reminds me of some things that Chris Voss (Author: Never Split the Difference - Negotiating as if your life depended on it) refers to as "tactical empathy"

* mirroring * labelling

Anyone else had positive or negative experiences in this area?

Re: How to be a good listener

#94

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #48

I'm no expert on listening, but I think do have a sense of when I personally feel heard. I don't agree with this piece at all, and I don't like the vibe of the author. The very first paragraph has a narcissism in it that rubs me the wrong way. Like the whole world let her down for not centering her in conversations the way her therapist caretaker did. > Some simple and powerful phrases to use when someone is feeling…

Agreed; it seems like a really weird mix of perfectly reasonable advice and wild assumptions about how "normal" human relationships work, both given in a condescending tone.

Also, I hope I'll be forgiven for doubting that someone is an expert on empathy when they write something like this:

> Then, try this: look at the person in the eyes. If you can’t stop thinking about yourself, know that you have a problem. Your self-centeredness renders you incapable of intimacy. Get help.

Re: How to be a good listener

#95

Post by greenie_beans »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #91
greenie_beans wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it appears you took the tabloid stuff and ran with it as a reason to disregard anything she says due to mental illness. at least that's how your first comment seems. including all of your comments against her in this post, you clearly have a bone to pick and i disagree with all of them. but that's all i'm gonna say about that, except, maybe you should listen to what she has to say in the article and also read the boo…

I went by the reviews - I don't intend to read the book. Her husband believes she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Have you had a friend or family member with BPD, or another cluster-B PD? These are clinical standards for self-absorption and toxic personality traits. In their relationships, cluster-Bs select for supplicants who will love them despite their toxicity. What you're saying about the memoir i…

got it: don't take interpersonal advice from somebody who has a personality disorder. especially when their advice is a piece of literature that is quite obviously a cry to be listened to. also, disregard my own judgement in the assessment of the piece of literature, and ignore my own criticism of the piece. really, just ignore the piece as a whole because of my judgements.

and yes, one of my best friends has BPD and i dated somebody who had it, and listening to them and their subjective experience and tips on how to communicate with them was the best thing i could ever do.

Re: How to be a good listener

#96

Post by leokennis »

novok wrote: post #33
kelseyfrog wrote: post #7

As someone who went out of their way and studied being a good listener, none of these are wrong, but I don't see it as being the best way of learning how to be a good listener. Reading about how to be a good listener can only get someone so far - watching someone demonstrate it and talking about it is the surest way to understand what it means. Specifically, Reflective listening[1], Clean language[2], and the approac…

On the flip side, if you are too good of a listener, people stop listening to you because they enjoy being listened to. You become the calm person that attracts all the anxious into their lives. Sometimes, you have to stop holding space for others for them to finally understand that, no it's not ok what they are doing anymore. To help others listen to you, you realize you have to learn to scream, because as the autho…

I have also found that instead of screaming, staying silent is a very powerful technique. If someone is spewing nonsense or making personal attacks, I sometimes just "hm mm" to confirm I heard them, and then stay silent. Nine out of ten times they will backtrack immediately.

Re: How to be a good listener

#97

Post by vendiddy »

creesch wrote: post #57
poulpy123 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, and the level 1 is actually good too. I understand what it is meant but the example is terrible

I do agree. I am familiar with three levels of listening, but in a slightly different way where the three levels are more about where your focus is as a listener. Roughly it comes down to: 1. Listening but focussed on yourself, interjecting with own experiences and sometimes in the process take over the conversation with your own experiences. 2. Focussed listening but on a factual level. Asking clarifications about e…

Thanks for this breakdown. I think I tend to do more #2 and sometimes will stumble onto #3. I ought to try it more!

Re: How to be a good listener

#98

Post by vendiddy »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #64
mvkel wrote: post #21

I went through a yearlong coaching program and one of the modules was learning how to listen. Imagine a friend tells you about a situation where their dad is starting to show signs of dementia and the strain it's putting on them as a caretaker. Level 1 listening (you're focused on yourself): - "Oh my dad had dementia, too. It's awful." Level 2 listening (you're focused on them, but parroting): - "caring for a parent…

Personally, I find 2 and 3 to be creepy and robotic. 3 also feels intrusive. The conscious analysis of tone and body language is obviously important for many people to get by socially, especially for neurodiverse people or people outside the norm of the situation. However, I think it is important to avoid remarking directly on body language. You can still let these non-verbal observations guide a conversation, of cou…

I wonder if how it's done matters. Like if you are genuinely curious and non judgemental it might not come across as creepy. Of course depends on the circumstances.

Re: How to be a good listener

#100

Post by CipherThrowaway »

greenie_beans wrote: post #95
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went by the reviews - I don't intend to read the book. Her husband believes she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Have you had a friend or family member with BPD, or another cluster-B PD? These are clinical standards for self-absorption and toxic personality traits. In their relationships, cluster-Bs select for supplicants who will love them despite their toxicity. What you're saying about the memoir i…

got it: don't take interpersonal advice from somebody who has a personality disorder. especially when their advice is a piece of literature that is quite obviously a cry to be listened to. also, disregard my own judgement in the assessment of the piece of literature, and ignore my own criticism of the piece. really, just ignore the piece as a whole because of my judgements. and yes, one of my best friends has BPD and…

> and tips on how to communicate with them was the best thing i could ever do

I'm interested in how you concluded the advice was so beneficial. Was it a reduction in conflict and fewer emotional outbursts from your BPD partner? A feeling that you're better able to soothe them and manage their feelings?

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