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How to be a good listener

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Re: How to be a good listener

#21
I went through a yearlong coaching program and one of the modules was learning how to listen.

Imagine a friend tells you about a situation where their dad is starting to show signs of dementia and the strain it's putting on them as a caretaker.

Level 1 listening (you're focused on yourself): - "Oh my dad had dementia, too. It's awful."

Level 2 listening (you're focused on them, but parroting): - "caring for a parent with dementia must be a huge burden; I can hear the toll it's taking in your voice"

Level 3 listening (a focus on what's not being said): - "when you were telling me about your dad's dementia noticed that you smiled a little bit when you said 'strain'. What was that?"

Listening is a muscle that needs to be trained.

Part of it was learning what it feels like to be -listened to-, too. Feeling heard is 80% of the way to a deep connection with another person. It's amazing how safe and trusting someone can seem if they simply, truly, hear you.

Re: How to be a good listener

#22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on this argument more? My first reaction was negative ("Why would the world be worse if more people felt safe sharing their feelings??") so I would like to hear more and challenge my assumptions. For my part, I'll point to research that suppressing emotions increases risk of suicide[1] and that many more men die from suicide than women[2]. I'm willing to hear out an argument that the world would be w…

Higher suicide rates in themselves might not be an evolutionary handicap. They probably get far more stuff done relative to the ones that are emotionally closer to females and live longer. Just spit balling here.

Why would they get more done? Suicide seems like the ultimate method to not get shit done

Re: How to be a good listener

#23
post #20
post #14

> 5. Don’t relate. I see this recommendation all the time, but I know I do it all the time, and personally I often _like_ it when other people do it to me. Sometimes it's nice to commiserate or share a connection on a similar experience, and maybe even learn from what the other person already went through. Does anyone else question this common piece of advice? Can't relating be useful if it's not being used to steer…

I definitely do this a lot. I would say I’m somewhat self-centred, but not a sociopath! I think I just make a connection with what they’re saying and then share my experience to commiserate, and to find wisdom/learnings from that experience to see if they apply. That’s my conscious assessment anyway. But I feel like I shouldn’t do it. Anyone have tips to avoid this? How do I prevent myself from relating their experie…

I'm not sure if there really is true selflessness. I think, for example, for me to even understand what's happening in this text exchange, I'm trying to imagine how you interpret the words while also recalling how I interpret the words and comparing the two. I'm trying to imagine how you're feeling, while also paying attention to how I'm feeling.

It just seems to be a pretty constant (if not always there) comparison and harmonization.

In other words, how are we supposed to understand the world without relating it to our experience?

Re: How to be a good listener

#24
post #11

> You know the obvious no-brainer ones already—don’t interrupt, don’t look at your phone, make (frequent, but not creepily constant) eye contact, turn your body towards the speaker… These "obvious" things are so unnatural for me that doing them consumes so much of my attention that I don't actually hear anything the person is saying.

I'm not sure what you meant, you doing them or the other person doing them?

Re: How to be a good listener

#25
I am not a therapist or the like. I opened the article bc I really think I should be a better listener (specifically with my tendency to interrupt, which I even do unconscuously, not bc I want to not listen, just my mind accumulates information like very fast and things pop up quickly).

However, I think I found a kind of "be super sensitive", let things come out article... unfortunately that behavior, in my experience, does not help the other part.

Sometimes we should tell the truth or give good advice or warn of the consequences of a bad decision. Yes we should listen, but not fooling the other part with "fake-positive" stuff, I am not sure I am expressing myself well. What I kean is, stay positive as much as possible, do not create unnecessary negativity, but keep it honest.

But according to this article, it seems that those should be disregarded.

Everything looks so soft in the article, at least from the point of view of my culture.

I must also say I was often classified as aggressive in the sense of being too direct. But if you are listening to someone and have a cinversation, I'd rather take the truth of what's wrong better than having compliments from the other side when they are not actually thinking that even themselves. That would just be being fake.

Also, dealing with children, which are still forming their personality, should be treated a bit differently and I can agree with the tips given in the article.

However, if someone comes and tells she is sad, my most likely reaction would be to ask why, do an analysis, try to stay positive BUT not lying about it so that it ends up genuinely helping that person. Same for many other situations.

Re: How to be a good listener

#26

I am not a therapist or the like. I opened the article bc I really think I should be a better listener (specifically with my tendency to interrupt, which I even do unconscuously, not bc I want to not listen, just my mind accumulates information like very fast and things pop up quickly). However, I think I found a kind of "be super sensitive", let things come out article... unfortunately that behavior, in my experienc…

> But according to this article, it seems that those should be disregarded.

Depending on the context, yes.

You are coming into this from a perspective of "listening to fix" and not "listening to understand" which are two different things.

Even if your intent is to help people by listening, you first might want to get the entire picture and understand the entire context. Because if you don't, what change do you really have of meaningfully helping someone?

Re: How to be a good listener

#27
post #26

I am not a therapist or the like. I opened the article bc I really think I should be a better listener (specifically with my tendency to interrupt, which I even do unconscuously, not bc I want to not listen, just my mind accumulates information like very fast and things pop up quickly). However, I think I found a kind of "be super sensitive", let things come out article... unfortunately that behavior, in my experienc…

> But according to this article, it seems that those should be disregarded. Depending on the context, yes. You are coming into this from a perspective of "listening to fix" and not "listening to understand" which are two different things. Even if your intent is to help people by listening, you first might want to get the entire picture and understand the entire context. Because if you don't, what change do you really…

In order to listen to fix first you must understand...

I mean that the kind of "I hear you", "yes, blabla" seems nice but it is the same thing anyone would tell you. Someone that does not know you maybe would react the same.

For me it is better (as in valuable) to get a: "because you fail to see you are doing it wrong? Don't you see that..." or something that tells you why you are being dumb and you should not be sad. For example: I am sad bc... the reason is important. If it is bc your father passed away there is nothing I can help with but if you just lost your job or did not get the marks you wanted, there is good advice to make people feel better and try to suggest to analyze what went wrong instead of saying: "oh poor you, I feel you" which does not help except to make that person feel better at that very moment and nothing else.

That "negative" information is more valuable to correct something.

If ehat you have is always people who just listen and let it go, you will end up without any helpful information and maybe even thinking that the problem is elsewhere.

Re: How to be a good listener

#28

I am not a therapist or the like. I opened the article bc I really think I should be a better listener (specifically with my tendency to interrupt, which I even do unconscuously, not bc I want to not listen, just my mind accumulates information like very fast and things pop up quickly). However, I think I found a kind of "be super sensitive", let things come out article... unfortunately that behavior, in my experienc…

> just my mind accumulates information like very fast and things pop up quickly

People who think that happens to them often turn out to just talk a lot of irrelevant and useless drivel (very much exactly like a LLM; just keep generating stuff no one wants to hear as part of the conversation); they talk just to talk with the excuse that they think they are very smart. They might be if they would shut up and use the listening time to actually form a better return. Not saying this is you, but saying ‘accumulates information very fast’ about yourself is a somewhat red flag imho.

It is rarely the case, even for famous smart people; most listen and then take a bit of time to come back with an answer; interrupting is terrible, more so when it’s not really relevant to what the actual point was (just hanging on to the first sentence and not listening to anything else until you can make your point about that sentence even though that was not the point of the discussion, at all). Or say they have to ponder it somewhat longer instead of having an instant response. Of course it depends on the subject; in political talks it seems more normal to blatantly step on someone talking, but then again, not all talks are political.

Re: How to be a good listener

#29

As someone who went out of their way and studied being a good listener, none of these are wrong, but I don't see it as being the best way of learning how to be a good listener. Reading about how to be a good listener can only get someone so far - watching someone demonstrate it and talking about it is the surest way to understand what it means. Specifically, Reflective listening[1], Clean language[2], and the approac…

>worded in their own language

Would you (or someone else that's knowledgable) be so kind to share your approach to doing this?

I find this to be hardest thing to do in the moment without feeling like a manipulative sociopath.

Re: How to be a good listener

#30
post #4

> What a different world we’d live in if more boys felt safe sharing feelings, in their own way, right from the start. What if it turned out to be a world much worse than what we have? There is perhaps some evolutionary advantage to people that suck it up and carry on?

Could you expand on this argument more? My first reaction was negative ("Why would the world be worse if more people felt safe sharing their feelings??") so I would like to hear more and challenge my assumptions. For my part, I'll point to research that suppressing emotions increases risk of suicide[1] and that many more men die from suicide than women[2]. I'm willing to hear out an argument that the world would be w…

As someone who spends most of his life and work focused on more openly expressing how I feel and wanting others to do the same, I'm curious to explore the other side as well.

I think one of the largest conflicts that I've encountered with this work is that a lot of culture, philosophy, religion, etc., seems to advocate for more emotional suppression. That the goal is to detach and have a quiet, steady, peaceful existence, absent of conflict, but also absent of too much connection.

And if those groups advocate for more suppression, to start to express more can create some deep conflict and possibility of ostracism or excommunication. For example, many people consider it to be an emotional affair if you say how you honestly feel to someone who is not your exclusive romantic partner. Many families consider it the ultimate betrayal to share family secrets with those outside the family. Etc.

So when I think of more men doing it, I worry that if not all men did, then culture could have that strong clash. Maybe we already have it. Some advocating to open up more, to be more aware of how we're feeling, and some advocating to go in the opposite direction.

I would love to talk about this more and I worry this post is already long enough for now :-)

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