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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#781

I do wonder if OpenAI is built on a house of cards. They aren’t a nonprofit, aren’t open, and stole a huge quantity of copyrighted material to get started. But, by moving fast and scaling quickly, are they at the Too Big to Fail stage already? The attempted board coup makes me think so.

When people say too big to fail, normally they're referring to companies which if they fail they would bring down other important parts of society's infrastructure (think biggest banks), and so someone (the gov) will last minute change the rules around to ensure they don't fail. The openai fails, absolutely nothing happens other than its shareholder losing their paper money. So no, they're not too big to fail.

OpenAI doesnt even have shareholders, so the company would just bankrupt and few hundred people would be out of jobs.

Probably Microsoft would hire them to some AI shop, because Microsoft is the one deploying the stuff. But Microsoft has rights to use it and the code, so for them OpenAI is only a research partner.

Maybe research would get slower.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#782
post #438

If OpenAI became a non-profit with this in its charter: “resulting technology will benefit the public and the corporation will seek to open source technology for the public benefit when applicable. The corporation is not organized for the private gain of any person" I don't think it is going to be hard to show that they are doing something very different than what they said they were going to do.

Its easy to show this, since the the corporation itself is doing this. The separate entity is the one going for revenue.

You can't just give away all assets of a non-profit to a for-profit and say that now the old non-profit values no longer matters.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#783
post #598
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the tech really is dangerous then being more closed arguably is in the public's best interest, and this is certainly the reason OpenAI have previously given. Not really. It slows down like security over obscurity. It needs to be open that we know the real risks and we have the best information to combat it. Otherwise, someone who does the same in closed matter, has better chances to get advantage when misusing i…

When I try to port your logic over into nuclear capacity it doesn't hold very well. Nuclear capacity is constrained, and those constraining it attempt to do so for reasons public good (energy, warfare, peace). You could argue about effectiveness, but our failure to self-annihilate seems positive testament to the strategy. Transparency does not serve us when mitigating certain forms of danger. I'm trying to remain hum…

Why would the logic hold well to begin with when using an analogy?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#784
I don't know how to feel about this. These are my two favorite people, and likely the two greatest minds the world has ever seen. Every hour they spend in court is an hour they deprive humanity of the value they bring. This is the saddest day of the year so far for me.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#785
post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need to call him to the stand, it's not some gotcha, he writes it all over the complaint itself. "AGI poses a grave threat to humanity — perhaps the greatest existential threat we face today." I highly doubt a court is going to opine about open vs closed being safer, though. The founding agreement is pretty clear that the intention was to make it open for the purpose of safety. Courts rule on if a cont…

You’re forgetting that any good lawyer would do something some random on hacker news made up to support their belief the lawsuit is about AI safety.

You're perhaps forgetting that the plaintiff here is Elon Musk, the man who was forced to buy Twitter due to not realizing that signing a legally binding contract was legally binding.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#786

A NY Times article says "Though Mr. Musk has repeatedly criticized OpenAI for becoming a for-profit company, he hatched a plan in 2017 to wrest control of the A.I. lab from Mr. Altman and its other founders and transform into a commercial operation that would work alongside his other companies, including the electric carmaker Tesla, and make use of their increasingly powerful supercomputers, people familiar with his…

NY Times is unusually biased [1] and has been embroiled in strange activity over the years [2]

[1] https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-york-times-opinion-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_New_York_Times_con...

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Musk claims X is the free speech town square but it isn't

X is definitely more free and allows more types of discourse than a year ago.

That depends entirely on who you are.

It isn't more free and allowing for journalists he bans for writing critical pieces on him or Twitter.

It is, if you're a far right activist or a nazi.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#789
Reading this thread I've got kinda abstract question, so I might as well just ask it here:

Do you think the "market" of openly available models (LLMs, text-to-image, speach recognition, etc) would be significantly different today, if not for OpenAI?

Obviously, it's not like OpenAI is the only place on earth where people work on these, and it's the overall success of deep learning what started OpenAI, not vice-verse. But as for someone not really in the loop, it feels like every other state-of-the-art open source model available right now was inspired, if not developed (whisper), by OpenAI. Stable Diffusion, LLaMA, Mistral, etc. Would these exist if not for DALLE, GPT and OpenAI in general?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#790
post #438

If OpenAI became a non-profit with this in its charter: “resulting technology will benefit the public and the corporation will seek to open source technology for the public benefit when applicable. The corporation is not organized for the private gain of any person" I don't think it is going to be hard to show that they are doing something very different than what they said they were going to do.

Let's say for the sake of argument that they violated their original charter, it still wouldn't give Musk standing to bring the suit. The charter is not a contract with Musk. He has no more standing than you or I.

> charter is not a contract with Musk

He was defrauded. If OpenAI fails, there is a good chance Altman et al get prosecuted.

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