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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#211

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

Didn't Visa start as a non proftit?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#212
post #165

The defendant list is a bit bewildering. How usual is a corporate structure like this? Which, if any of these, is the nonprofit? OPENAI, INC., a corporation, OPENAI, L.P., a limited partnership, OPENAI, L.L.C., a limited liability company, OPENAI GP, L.L.C., a limited liability company, OPENAI OPCO, LLC, a limited liability company, OPENAI GLOBAL, LLC, a limited liability company, OAI CORPORATION, LLC, a limited liab…

The NYT lawsuit lists the same organizations: https://nytco-assets.nytimes.com/2023/12/NYT_Complaint_Dec20... According to https://openai.com/our-structure the non-profit is "OpenAl, Inc. 501(c)(3) Public Charity".

Thanks, that's very helpful, I had not seen the diagram on OpenAI's website before.

It explains at least three of the entities, but I do wonder about the purpose of some of the other entities. For example, a limited partnership is quite odd to have hanging around, I'm wondering what part it plays here.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#213
post #58

The cynic in me believes this is motivated by not Musk's love for the "mission", but by xAI, his attempt to build OpenAI's competitor. I'm guessing this is just a way to weaken a competitor.

I agree, but if the bar for cynicism is “not taking a billionaire at their word”, then we’re at peak gullibility. Especially if said actor has a track record of deception for economic, social or political gain.

This requires less cynicism than seeing through that Putin invaded to denazify Ukraine, or that your corporate employer rewarded you with pizza because they care about you.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#214

This is good news. OpenAI's recent decision to dive into the secretive military contracting world makes a mockery of all its PR about alignment and safety. Using AI to develop targeted assassination lists based on ML algorithms (as was and is being done in Gaza) is obviously 'unsafe and unethical' use of the technology: https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/perspective/20231212-un...

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#215

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

Dual license open source software, taking new versions of open source projects off open source licenses, and open source projects with related for-profit systems management software that makes it more likely enterprise customers will pay, are common practice. How would you distinguish what OpenAI has done?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#216

Wouldn't you have to prove damages in a lawsuit like this? What damages does Musk personally suffer if OpenAI has in fact broken their contract?

that AGI, instead of benefitting the whole world, in which Musk is a part of, will end up only benefitting Microsoft, which he isn't a part of?

"AGI"

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can sue for many reasons. For example, when a party breaks a contract, the other party can sue to compel the contract to be performed as agreed.

Well Elon was forced to buy Twitter that way

I think this is downvoted because (and I could be wrong) he could have paid a breakup fee instead of buying the business. So he wasn't compelled to actually own and operate the business.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#218

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

The public has no idea what non-profits are and a lot of things that people call 'profit seeking ventures' (ie. selling products) are done by many non-profits.

Most frequently "The CEO gets paid $X! Doesn't sound like a non-profit to me!"

I hear this all the time. As if the people working there shouldn't be paid.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The organization consists of the non-profit OpenAI, Inc. registered in Delaware and its for-profit subsidiary OpenAI Global, LLC. (From Wikipedia)

A non-profit can have a for-profit subsidiary?

yes, common and why not? i dont think most people here know what non profits are or actually do

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#220
post #150

While I have no doubt everything in the complaint is correct, it's hard to see it as Elon being genuinely concerned about open and safe AI vs just having FOMO that he isn't part of it anymore and doesn't get to call the shots. For example his own AI startup is exactly as closed off and unregulated as OpenAI. Why is that not equally concerning?

I don't want to be in the position of defending Elon Musk, but in this case his complaint seems to be that OpenAI claims one thing and does another. If X.ai started out telling everyone it's for-profit and closed off, then it's not hypocritical at all for it to be that. It's something else, sure.

But Musk claims X is the free speech town square but it isn't
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