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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#281

Post by sema4hacker »

A NY Times article says "Though Mr. Musk has repeatedly criticized OpenAI for becoming a for-profit company, he hatched a plan in 2017 to wrest control of the A.I. lab from Mr. Altman and its other founders and transform into a commercial operation that would work alongside his other companies, including the electric carmaker Tesla, and make use of their increasingly powerful supercomputers, people familiar with his plan have said. When his attempt to take control failed, he left the OpenAI board, the people said."

That would let OpenAI lawyers keep this suit tied up for a very long time.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#282

Post by inputError »

xiphias2 wrote: post #104
andsoitis wrote: post #26

Many would argue, reasonably so, that OpenAI is now a de facto subsidiary of the largest company in the world by market cap, Microsoft (Apple is second and Saudi Arabian Oil is third).

Actually NVIDIA just took over Saudi Aramco, but they are sharing 3rd position.

[dead]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#283

Post by BoppreH »

I find it interesting that there's no mention of private information after ~2020. No whistleblowers, private demos, chats with Altman, or anything not found in mainstream news.

Is that required for filing a case, or is Musk operating from the same information as all of us?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#284

Post by owenpalmer »

I uploaded the pdf into GPT4, and this is the output:

"Elon Musk is suing OpenAI, alleging breach of contract, promissory estoppel, breach of fiduciary duty, unfair competition under California Business and Professional Code, and accounting. Musk claims that OpenAI deviated from its founding principles, which emphasized developing artificial intelligence (AI) for the benefit of humanity, open-sourcing their technology, and not pursuing profit maximization. The suit highlights concerns over OpenAI's shift towards proprietary practices, particularly with the development and handling of GPT-4, and alleges that these actions contradict the organization's original mission and agreements."

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#285

Post by justinzollars »

emodendroket wrote: post #270
siliconc0w wrote: post #248

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

They didn't "turn it into" a for-profit though, they created a separate for-profit arm. This one is unusually successful but that's not an unusual thing for even "regular" charities to do in order to engage in some activities that they wouldn't normally be able to.

And transferred everything they did to that arm. I'm all for tax avoidance, but the rules should apply to everyone equally. Small ma and pa businesses don't have the money to hire armies of lawyers for these legal machinations

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#286

Post by s1artibartfast »

breadwinner wrote: post #32
username332211 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a donor to the OpenAi non-profit organization.

A donor usually is only able to say how his donation will be used. For example, if you donate to Harvard University, you can say the money will be earmarked for scholarships, but you don't get a say on how the university is managed. You can at best say you will no longer donate based on how the university is managed.

You can say how it is run if you found the University and put your conditions in the legal Charter of the organization. It is a problem if the university Chancellor later decides the primary purpose of the university is to save puppies without going through the correct process to change the charter.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#287

Post by emodendroket »

WolfeReader wrote: post #262
tw600040 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that AGI, instead of benefitting the whole world, in which Musk is a part of, will end up only benefitting Microsoft, which he isn't a part of?

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

I would agree but the filing is at pains to argue the opposite (seemingly because such a determination would affect Microsoft's license).

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#288

Post by l2silver »

emodendroket wrote: post #270
siliconc0w wrote: post #248

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

They didn't "turn it into" a for-profit though, they created a separate for-profit arm. This one is unusually successful but that's not an unusual thing for even "regular" charities to do in order to engage in some activities that they wouldn't normally be able to.

Creating a separate for-profit arm is trivially easy.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#289

Post by sensanaty »

swozey wrote: post #257
sensanaty wrote: post #244

I don't even particularly like Musk, but I definitely despise M$ and their comic-book tier villanous shenanigans even more. Here's to hoping M$ gets fucked in this.

The mental gymnastics that some tech bro has to go through to like Musk over Microsoft to the point that they still use the 2001 meme of "M$FT" is hilarious. I know just about everything I could ever need to know about both companies and I have tons, tons of friends who absolutely love and have been at "M$FT" for 5-20 years. I don't know a single person who likes working at Tesla or SpaceX and I used to live in Austi…

Wow the people employed by the evil gigacorporation like working for the entity shoveling mountains of money at them, what a completely unexpected stance for them to have.

M$ is no different today than they were in the days of their EEE strategy, they've just fooled the techbros, as you put it, into believing they're still not the scum of the earth anymore.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#290

Post by permo-w »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #179
permo-w wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. AGI is an existential threat, but the real meat of this lawsuit is ensuring that you can't let founders have their cake and eat it like this. what's the point of a non-profit if they can simply pivot to making profit the second they have something of value? the answer is that there is none, besides dishonesty. it's quite sad that the American regulatory system is in such disrepair that we could ev…

Most people simply don't understand what non profit means. It doesn't and never meant the entity can't make money. It just means that it can't make money for the donors . Even with open AI, there is a pretty strong argument that donors are not profiting. For example, Elon, one of the founders and main donors won't see a penny from OpenAI work with Microsoft.

what do you mean by "make money"? do you mean "make profit"? or do you mean "earn revenue"?

if you mean "make profit", then no, that is simply not true. they have to reinvest the money, and even if it was true, that the government is so weak as to allow companies specifically designated as "non-profit" to profit investors - directly or indirectly - would simply be further proving my point.

if you mean "earn revenue", I don't think anyone has ever claimed that non-profits are not allowed to earn revenue.

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