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European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

wcd.copernicus.org

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Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#101

Post by interludead »

tda wrote: post #22

The issue with climate change is exactly that: change. Doesn't matter if it get colder, dryer, wetter, warmer than it used too. It is a huge undertaking to change the built environment to handle conditions that were once seen as exceptional. Houses, streets and waterways are normally replaced/adjusted on the scale of multiple decades or even centuries. Significant climate change is affecting areas everywhere on a sin…

Tottaly agree. The world around us is changing, climate change is the main one which has impact on nearly anything

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#102

Post by hef19898 »

mdw wrote: post #84

Earths history has had many extraordinary climate changes, we already know of events like Permian–Triassic extinction. I appreciate many people feel an obligation for humanity to minimise its effect on climate change, but the way I see it, change is constant. If we don’t cause an extinction event, earth will do it just fine without us. The best result for humanity is if we get off this rock asap and improve our techn…

I know Starship is a one big spaceship, but how maby people exactly do you want to evacuate from Earth?

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#103

Post by hef19898 »

jeltz wrote: post #71
piva00 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Back in July 2018 we had a month of hot weather in Stockholm (you probably experience it, saw in another comment you moved Sweden -> Spain), temperatures reaching 30C for multiple days and "tropical nights" (air temperature >= 20C during the night), even as a native Brazilian I could not bear how…

No, it does work that way. The issue is that without AC our buildings will eventually get so warm insulation does not help. Buildings would not cool down anyway during night in Stockholm due to the very short nights and Stockholm bring by a lake, we do not have cool nights. The only solution is insulation plus AC.

Heatpumps would help as well.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#104

Post by hef19898 »

fl7305 wrote: post #97
CalRobert wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, air source heat pumps (mini or multi split systems) in particular. Unfortunately most houses in northern Europe are obsolete and plumbed for radiators so people tend to opt for systems that heat water instead of upgrading to something that offers cooling as well.

Can you cool the water to the radiators? Or will that just lead to condensation and mold?

Yes, and yes. That's why every AC unit has a condensor unit thaz dries the air.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#105

Post by Aromasin »

graemep wrote: post #62
Aromasin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely this. Earth's 'normal' extinction rate is often thought to be somewhere between 0.1 and 1 species per 10,000 species per 100 years. A mass extinction event is when species vanish much faster than they are replaced. This is usually defined as about 75% of the world's species being lost in a short period of geological time - less than 2.8 million years. The current rate of extinction is between 100 and 1,000…

Yes, but mass extinction is the result of our greater land usage and resource overexploitation, not climate change (in that it would be happening even if climate change was not). This also makes it harder for many species to adjust to climate change and habitat loss as it is much harder for them to migrate.

Not strictly accurate; it's the major part of it, but climate-change driven species loss is a real threat and at some point will likely outpace the rate of loss due to land/resource exploitation.

Ocean biodiversity loss is almost certainly harmed by overfishing and toxic run-off from rivers/lakes don't get me wrong, but it's also hugely impacted by rising sea temperatures. Ocean biodiversity increases exponentially with sea surface temperature up to about 20-25 C (68-77 F). Beyond that threshold, biodiversity drops off due to the limits of aerobic metabolism. Temperatures that make it hard for cold-blooded sea creatures to breathe have likely been among the biggest drivers for shifts in the distribution of marine biodiversity.

Desertification, caused partly by human agriculture and the removal of soil-retaining plant matter but mostly due to climate change, is also a major cause of species loss and it's occurring across much of the planet - especially Africa and Central Asia. Those animals that can't rapidly migrate to cooler/wetter climates are ripe for extinction.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#106

Post by thriftwy »

myrmidon wrote: post #93
thriftwy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in Russia there's this Pleistocene Park, which is a part of tundra where grazing animals are left to be in hopes of recovering the ancient arctic steppe landscape. I hope they still exist and get some finance in the current polit-economical climate. Nothing prevents the EU from buying a large amount of Indonesian lands (Brazil, etc) and making it a Orangutan paradise. Like a national park but this time actually in…

Wild boars are neither endangered, nor are they native to Norway, so those do not detract from conservationist efforts in any way. Buying land abroad is simply not a feasible approach to prevent deforestation, for multiple reasons: 1) Prohibitive cost: Foreign actor is not interested in owning like 5% of the deforesting countries total land area-- he wants to spend the money for preservation, not to become a titanic…

> Wild boars are neither endangered, nor are they native to Norway, so those do not detract from conservationist efforts in any way

That's exactly the spirit, right. The West will invent the rules, according to which it does not have to do anything (and be praised if it does something), whereas some other countries have to preserve nature on their own budget.

I don't think that Biosphere anyhow values orangutans more than it does boars.

I guess you could set up an entity in Indonesia with accordance with local laws and just pay for the privilege.

I can see that most of my comments are now flagged. That's why nobody in the world listens to what the West has to say anymore. There's no possibility of a discussion.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#107

Post by diggan »

piva00 wrote: post #59
diggan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. Luckily, because of the cold, buildings are well insulated so at least they can seek some cover inside. Granted, it won't reach 40C anyways, but at least houses are built properly over there so it helps a little.

It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Back in July 2018 we had a month of hot weather in Stockholm (you probably experience it, saw in another comment you moved Sweden -> Spain), temperatures reaching 30C for multiple days and "tropical nights" (air temperature >= 20C during the night), even as a native Brazilian I could not bear how…

> It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer.

Goes both ways, doesn't it?

Lots of houses in Sweden have basement/cellar floors as well, and if you have good insulation, you manage to keep more of that below-ground coldness around, compared to if air blew freely through the house. At least that was my experience.

> you probably experience it

Fortunately not, moved away from my home country in 2012 already :)

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#108

Post by graemep »

KaiserPro wrote: post #98
graemep wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sufficient impact to require rebuilding houses or other buildings on a single decade scale? I cannot see that sort of rapid rebuilding anywhere I know. I live in a house that is about 60 years old. I have friends who live in houses centuries old. Not come across anyone who needs to change very much to cope with climate change, apart from things to reduce emissions (mostly installing heat pumps can be difficult) The b…

Anyone living in a flood plane will have had to have made changes or not be insured. Flash flooding is getting worse in the UK, partly because of climate change (look at how wet February was for south east UK) but also because a lot of urban areas are being paved over. but to a throw away comment: > installing heat pumps can be difficult Yes, yes they can be, but also they also are not the cheapest way to save carbon…

There is crazy housebuilding and development in the UK. An entire housing estate was built where I used to live on land that is known to flood. They built pumps to offset it.

Nonetheless, very few places are affected with a decade. The vast majority of people live in places that will not be badly enough to need rebuilding any time soon.

I am hoping that this is a UK problem and the rest of the world is mostly not as crazy. Not that I have high hopes of that.

> Yes, yes they can be, but also they also are not the cheapest way to save carbon.

Cost effective solutions are not profitable, so are not backed by lobbying and marketing.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#109

Post by myrmidon »

thriftwy wrote: post #106
myrmidon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild boars are neither endangered, nor are they native to Norway, so those do not detract from conservationist efforts in any way. Buying land abroad is simply not a feasible approach to prevent deforestation, for multiple reasons: 1) Prohibitive cost: Foreign actor is not interested in owning like 5% of the deforesting countries total land area-- he wants to spend the money for preservation, not to become a titanic…

> Wild boars are neither endangered, nor are they native to Norway, so those do not detract from conservationist efforts in any way That's exactly the spirit, right. The West will invent the rules, according to which it does not have to do anything (and be praised if it does something), whereas some other countries have to preserve nature on their own budget. I don't think that Biosphere anyhow values orangutans more…

> That's exactly the spirit, right. The West will invent the rules, according to which it does not have to do anything (and be praised if it does something), whereas some other countries have to preserve nature on their own budget.

I don't think the boars vs orangutan distinction is very controversial; one of those is critically endangered, the other is basically an invasive species in Norway, and not even close to threatened.

If you make an effort to preserve biodiversity, spending money on the pigs seems very hard to justify, not matter what kind of rules you make up...

> I guess you could set up an entity in Indonesia with accordance with local laws and just pay for the privilege.

This is being done already (mostly by private entities), but it is quite ineffective/impossible on a government scale, and the goal is not to keep a bunch of zoos or animal sanctuaries, but to preserve species/habitat altogether.

I believe you underestimate how much e.g. the EU already pays or does for preserving biodiversity (like 20 billion € per year), so painting their efforts as purely "asking others to do the hard part/pay" is very disingenuous.

I think you are being flagged because your comments came across as somewhat pro-genocidal (paying perpetrators to not/stop commit genocide is a bit... out there).

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#110

Post by thriftwy »

myrmidon wrote: post #109
thriftwy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wild boars are neither endangered, nor are they native to Norway, so those do not detract from conservationist efforts in any way That's exactly the spirit, right. The West will invent the rules, according to which it does not have to do anything (and be praised if it does something), whereas some other countries have to preserve nature on their own budget. I don't think that Biosphere anyhow values orangutans more…

> That's exactly the spirit, right. The West will invent the rules, according to which it does not have to do anything (and be praised if it does something), whereas some other countries have to preserve nature on their own budget. I don't think the boars vs orangutan distinction is very controversial; one of those is critically endangered, the other is basically an invasive species in Norway, and not even close to t…

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