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European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

wcd.copernicus.org

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Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#71

Post by jeltz »

piva00 wrote: post #59
diggan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. Luckily, because of the cold, buildings are well insulated so at least they can seek some cover inside. Granted, it won't reach 40C anyways, but at least houses are built properly over there so it helps a little.

It doesn't work that way, exactly because the buildings are well insulated they keep warmth for much longer during summer. Back in July 2018 we had a month of hot weather in Stockholm (you probably experience it, saw in another comment you moved Sweden -> Spain), temperatures reaching 30C for multiple days and "tropical nights" (air temperature >= 20C during the night), even as a native Brazilian I could not bear how…

No, it does work that way. The issue is that without AC our buildings will eventually get so warm insulation does not help.

Buildings would not cool down anyway during night in Stockholm due to the very short nights and Stockholm bring by a lake, we do not have cool nights. The only solution is insulation plus AC.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#72

Post by CalRobert »

icoder wrote: post #37
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to start building differently.

This is already happening, but I don't know to what extent (especially over multiple countries), but we moved into our extremely well insulated house (thing 3 layers of glass) in the Netherlands mid 2020. Heating happens using a ground source + heat pump, cooling using just the ground source and passive pumping, ventilation is centralised and uses heat exchange. During some 30/35+ waves of the last few summers we kep…

How do you handle light? I'm in Hilversum and the houses are just ovens.

Until recently I lived in Ireland and people looked at me like I had 3 heads when I talked about air tightness, deciduous trees in front of south facing windows, and eaves/awnings - the idea that you might not _want_ as much light as possible baffled the dinosaurs in planning.

I hope the Netherlands is better but I still see an awful lot of windows with no protection from sunlight. Eaves are perfect (and deciduous trees) because you can angle them such that you get light in the winter but shade in the mid-day summer sun.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#73

Post by CalRobert »

fl7305 wrote: post #43
trilbyglens wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shutters and window shades can be added easily enough, and the high-mass of many buildings here gives decent heat inertia to keep things cooler during the day.

Also, can't you run some heat pumps in reverse and use them as air conditioners? So there might be a natural path to taming the problem as heating systems are replaced for end of life reasons.

Yes, air source heat pumps (mini or multi split systems) in particular.

Unfortunately most houses in northern Europe are obsolete and plumbed for radiators so people tend to opt for systems that heat water instead of upgrading to something that offers cooling as well.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#74

Post by jeltz »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #12
ido wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. It’s not a matter of looking, that’s just not how people build here (just like people in Israel don’t build building that handle cold weather well).

They need to start building differently.

And we do. The issue is all old homes that need to have AC installed.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#75

Post by ido »

ponector wrote: post #21
ido wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buildings in northern Europe are just not built for ventilation, AC and dealing with heat. It’s not a matter of looking, that’s just not how people build here (just like people in Israel don’t build building that handle cold weather well).

I've spent few months in Andalusia and can't say their apartment buildings are better suited for heat than one I live in Poland. Yes there are more curtains and AC, but it is not related to the building, you can have them in northern apartment too.

At least in Israel apartments are much better ventilated than in Germany - there are usually multiple directions with windows (e.g. windows on 3 air directions, so you can open all the windows and get good circulation), a lot of apartments in Germany have only 1-2 air directions and the rooms are not setup for good air circulation. Also windows tend to be much bigger and open up more conveniently in Israel (in Germany because windows open inwards if you have anything on the way you can’t easily open the window, you have to first remove everything from the window sill - in Israel windows often slide or open outwards).

It’s subtle differences and when its super hot (40c) you need AC anyway, but upper 20s/low 30s still feel ok in a well ventilated apartment and not so much with one built for keeping the cold out (like in Germany).

It’s also much more common to have functional window shades (like these http://alumgo.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/6/7/14671210/7800745_or...) in Israel than in Germany. In homes I’ve mostly only seen the cheap kind of shades or curtains in Germany, and these aren’t very good.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#76

Post by notachatbot123 »

thriftwy wrote: post #49
hef19898 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can call out Western hypocrasy without abetting, and excusing Putins actions. Or defend them. Or spreading propaganda and other falsehoods. You can do so, too. I know it.

[flagged]

Societies and people can learn from their past mistakes and be wiser now.

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#77

Post by CalRobert »

ido wrote: post #6
ecmascript wrote: post #4

So.. as an individual living in the northen part of Europe, can I expect a nice summer then?

Here in Berlin I’d much rather the traditional 25c summers over the 35c+ summer of ’22 (fortunately ’23 summer was relatively mild and rainy). I do appreciate the mild winters tho!

So do the ticks!

Re: European summer weather linked to North Atlantic freshwater anomalies

#78

Post by Y-bar »

jeltz wrote: post #69
tokai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the very northern parts it hasn't been cold. Spring flowers bloomed last week in Denmark.

Stockholm was cold this winter and I would not say we are very northern.

It might have felt colder than usual since there were a few really cold days and the years prior were very warm, but...

December 2023 in Stockholm was pretty much _average_

https://www.smhi.se/polopoly_fs/1.203578.1706190685!/image/t...

And January a bit below average:

https://www.smhi.se/polopoly_fs/1.204720.1708930291!/image/t...

February is on track on being above average with a record early spring.

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