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Punk is dead and so are we

bananapeel.substack.com

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Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#41

[flagged]

To quote the article:

"Regardless of what the social landscape looked like for same-sex attracted or and/or conscientiously gender-nonconforming people fifty, thirty, or even fifteen years ago, at this point “queer” culture is anything but counter. You can buy its swag at Hot Topic—and at Target, for that matter. It’s got its own shelf at the bookstore, a category on Hulu, playlists on Spotify, and representatives in newsrooms and film studios. Nothing intrinsic to it interferes with the general program. It has been neutralized. A space has been provided for it."

"Counterculture became subculture and subculture became mass culture."

"the culture industry learned to neutralize and exploit radical elements, and how it may have become acclimated to anticipating and guiding their cyclical emergence."

"Today’s teenaged and twenty-something “blue hairs” will figure it out, in time—just as most of us learned that being punk or goth or metal or whatever else was essentially a paid subscription for a product line which we were sold on the pitch that we required it to give expression to the Authentic Selves that would otherwise be hidden under a bushel of blue jeans and polo shirts.

"But for the most part, it rather seems to me that most modern subcultures aren’t interested in pretending to be anything other than hobbyists, fandoms, and followers of fashion and influencer content. "

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#42
post #24

There is a sort of nihilism that emerges when you look deeper at counterculture and it's conformity. Neo recognizing with horror the other neos is a great example. (In that case it only worked out for him because of hollywood's love of love - because he loved trinity so much he was really different from the rest.) I've often wondered how the leaders of the hippie, punk, and more modern movements would compare to clas…

Sadly, we do not have David Graeber anymore.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative would be libertarian socialism, with economy of some mixture of cooperative economics, decentralized planning, gift economy and library economy.

Do you have any good links that explain more? In my mind the ideas of socialism and libertarianism are polar opposites.

Libertarian socialism tends to reject both corporate power/ownership and state power/ownership in favor of worker led ownership.

They aren't necessarily libertarian socialism per se, but there area also lots of variations of socialism that combine social liberalism with economic socialism or which are fine with greater collectivism but reject central planning.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#45

I'm not familiar with the age of the author but the article very much makes me think they are old enough to have seen the counterculture of their youth become mainstream and die while the next wave of counterculture was "inauthentic and corporate" followed by being too out of touch with the youth to notice the counterculture coming up behind it (and mistaking the mainstream for the counterculture, ie, taylor swift, k…

> I'm not familiar with the age of the author

They say they were in their teens in the late 90's.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#46
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an old punk ethic was 'Do It Yourself' (DIY), maybe the modern punk equivalent would be 'Do It Offline' (DIO.)

I don’t know to what degree it’s “a thing” but I know a lot of 30-something punks from my old scene that are now into a kind of homesteading vibe. Moved out to the surrounding countryside as much for economic as ideological reasons. Some are all the way into off-the-grid, home schooling, etc. Nothing says “Fuck the System!” like solar panels and a wood burning stove I guess?

Well, as long as they don't move onto mailing letter bombs a la the Unabomber, it actually sounds pretty appealing to me too.

Edit: I see I'm getting a couple downvotes which is fine; I get that the joke isn't in such good taste. The thing is that Kaczynski had a lot of the same critiques of modernity. Perhaps if he had not been a murderer/terrorist, his writing would be a bit more respected, but of course it is more likely he would just be an unknown weirdo living in the woods.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#47

Would that make metal the new punk?

No, metal is just another tent underneath the larger tent of rock. It has a defined place to be slotted in.

True, though it's subversive in its current form because there's just not much commercial success to be had from it. The kid who's into metal is the weirdo (I should know; I was that weirdo) and the weird are a naturally-limited market.

You have to be in it for the love of the game.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#48
The book "Gravity's Rainbow" had this as a theme throughout. That Capitalism will co-op anything that it finds useful. That there's no way to subvert it as it will pick up on, embrace, and exploit it for profit. Amazon selling books on how to dismantle global capitalism, etc. Pynchon's only solution was to completely fly under the radar as much as you possibly can. It makes sense he doesn't do interviews, or distribute anything other than the words in his books.

Mark Fisher is an interesting philosopher. For those that don't know he was a part of the ""Cybernetic Cultural Research Unit" [1] at Warwick University led by Nick Land. These guys were crazy but from their insanity some extremely interesting observations and ideas came out of it. In particular, "Accelerationism"[2] which has become very popular in the AI world, e/acc, etc. Fisher was more of the left wing side of it and Land from the right wing. In fact, Land is a reactionary today and their ideas are quite interesting as opposed to the mainstream left/liberal Capitalist ideals of today's mainstream.

Nick Land is an interesting fellow.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetic_Culture_Research_Un...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#49
post #24

There is a sort of nihilism that emerges when you look deeper at counterculture and it's conformity. Neo recognizing with horror the other neos is a great example. (In that case it only worked out for him because of hollywood's love of love - because he loved trinity so much he was really different from the rest.) I've often wondered how the leaders of the hippie, punk, and more modern movements would compare to clas…

> I suppose a major difference is that infuential people back then didn't seem as concerned with being famous and viral

They started caring a lot about this as soon as they had the printing press, take a look at the career of Erasmus for example.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#50
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is the same "type" of group. There have always been those who neglect to adopt the technology of the day or buy heavily into the culture, without also buying into some sort of counter-cultural movement. Today it might be those who eschew social media and being terminally online. In the 90s perhaps it was those who limited their TV time. In my view, it would be inaccurate to describe this group as "s…

I'd also expect them not to be luddites, but rather subversive rejectors. This probably isn't an entirely apt example, but think people who use things like PiHole rather than people who never adopted the internet in the first place.

That's what the actual Luddite movement was in the first place.
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