Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

saveflipper.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

851–860 of 916 posts

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#851

Post by bombcar »

strangattractor wrote: post #707
GuB-42 wrote: post #617

> Security tools like Flipper Zero are essentially programmable radios, known as Software Defined Radios (SDRs) The Flipper Zero is not a SDR, it is less capable than that. That's the ironic part, the Flipper Zero is a rather weak hacking tool. It can open car doors, but it is so impractical that it is not much more than a party trick. You have to record the code by pressing the button on the keyfob out of range of t…

At one time is was possible to open car doors with a coat hanger. Nobody suggested banning coat hangers. They fixed the doors.

There is (was?) a tool called a slim Jim that was basically a purpose-built coathanger for unlocking doors.

There was some talk of banning them in some areas, because people love treating symptoms rather than causes.

Nowadays the tow truck drivers have a little inflatable bag they slide into the top of the door and inflate so they can press the unlock button from the inside. Quite effective!

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#853

Post by bombcar »

ummonk wrote: post #741
strangattractor wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one time is was possible to open car doors with a coat hanger. Nobody suggested banning coat hangers. They fixed the doors.

Not a great analogy though, since a coat hanger’s primary use is not to break into cars. Note: I’m not advocating banning the flipper zero anymore than I’d advocate banning lock picks. I just don’t think the analogy is apt.

It’s really hard to determine the primary use of an item, especially for legal purposes.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#854

Post by bombcar »

acdha wrote: post #549
2024throwaway wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP said the key is in the car key. You already give the car key to a mechanic, I don't see how this would make maintenance any harder.

Think about what happens when people lose their keys, which will reliably happen.

Just make it so the key has to match cryptography with a device that is wedged deep within the vehicle in a hard to access way.

The dealer can spend the two hours necessary to replace the encryption module, but thieves would have to also spend that same two hours.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#855

Post by Geisterde »

caconym_ wrote: post #788
Geisterde wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in the context of broad safety you have a point. Of course, you are more likely to die in places where police are responsible for your protection. The safest places people inhabit are their home, their work, places with private security measures. The negligence you speak of, how widespread would you say it is? Would you say the EPA dropped the ball preventing the east Palestine Ohio train derailment? Would you…

I don't have much faith that our regulators are going to get their shit together either, but that doesn't mean I can't hold them responsible for the consequences of their negligence. As for the theory that the invisible hand of the market will drive better outcomes in traffic safety, that is obviously not happening in aggregate. It may even be having the opposite effect, given the unchecked proliferation of pickup tr…

Depending on the make and model of a car, you might save money because insurance companies have determined those cars to be safer. If you have a lowjack, your location, your history, there are a lot of factors that go into insurance costs. Insurance companies adjust insurance prices based on risk. Why would you assume private insurance wouldnt also price their policies based on how safe a train is, what the risk is that it crashes, etc.?

Its about who is signing off on whats safe. The government has proven that thry are at best incompetent, they do not have the incentive. A private company has to maintain their reputation through quality of service, they dont have the seemingly endless faith of people because they are "government".

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#856

Post by Geisterde »

vsuperpower2020 wrote: post #789
Geisterde wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this arguement. I hear it in the form "we should just regulate cars to be safer", why dont you just buy a safer car? "What do you take me for? I got a mustang GT, the last thing that car is worried about is safety". Interesting, you bought a car because its fast, not paying any consideration to whether it could safely get you from point A to B, and this is what you rely on to get you to work? Its n…

You shouldn't have to consider if the car's locks work, because working locks should be a baseline in cars produced in a first world country. It's that simple and easy. You aren't nearly as smart as you think you are and having basic standards of how corporations should operate isn't coddling.

Then by the standards set by government, I guess the united states isnt a first world country.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#857

Post by sonicanatidae »

badgersnake wrote: post #671
sonicanatidae wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And everyone should also have to purchase an add-on? Yes! -Apple

When the iPhone 4 came out and antennagate happened, they gave everyone a plastic case for free.

They gave everyone a plastic case for free, after the world went nuts over just how stupid that issue was.

Let's not paint Apple with an altruistic brush.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#858

Post by Geisterde »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #794
Geisterde wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets see, oooo tiktok, heres the kia challenge. Or maybe google "are kias secure". Whatever format you can understand, you will be presented several sources that explain the situation quite clearly.

And if you googled that three and a half years ago when you were actually buying the car? I bet you had to know exactly what to look for, and "problems with kias" wouldn't get the average person there.

If you googled kias at any time ever you would have seen they are absolutely riddled with issues. People on HN seem to think buying a car is like designing a CPU or investing in a portfolio of stocks, you could try doing some research.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#859

Post by sevagh »

fargle wrote: post #583

stupid on stupid. - it's incredibly stupid to ban the flipper zero because it's factually not even part of the problem - but it's equally stupid to "ban insecure vehicles". if kia makes a cheap car with crappy locks either don't buy it (because maybe insurance) or add and aftermarket immobilizer or a steering wheel lock. if it was really negligent of kia to "save a couple bucks", then it's equally negligent on you fo…

>- i also cringe at the idea that we throw the word negligent around when talking about failing to prevent other peoples crimes. i'm not negligent for not doing enough to prevent the crimes of some other asshole. nor is kia. meanwhile, there's sibling threads here that point out that the us is far to hard on the criminals. so wait - kia and me and other law abiding entities are "negligent", but the asshole who stole the car deserves compasion, etc.?

It's pretty simple: if some car manufacturers have much higher rates of theft and are easier to steal than others, they are negligent. If by catching up to industry-standard anti-theft practices, their cars become harder to steal, not doing so is negligent.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#860

Post by sonicanatidae »

ddalex wrote: post #687
badgersnake wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the iPhone 4 came out and antennagate happened, they gave everyone a plastic case for free.

I thought that they teached people to hold it right

It was a feature!

https://osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/iphone-4-ant...

Post reply on HN