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Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

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Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#841

Post by maxerickson »

Chris2048 wrote: post #89
acdha wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintenance is a big key management problem though: if only the owner has it, there will be problems when people inevitably lose it. If there are shared keys for service departments or databases, thieves will get access to them. Things like time-limited on-demand keys can limit those problems but now you can’t get your car serviced when Toyota’s servers go down and they need to commit to not breaking API compatibilit…

The same problem exist for car keys. The answer is, when a person "inevitably lose[s] it", they need to pay to get their electronics refit.

This is like the initiative to get people to wear body armor to cut down on muggings.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#842

Post by gchamonlive »

joe_the_user wrote: post #665
gchamonlive wrote: post #17

Security flaws are not born equal. I think there is supposed to be a clear distinction between flaws inherent in technology -- since you only know what you know nobody should be expected to develop impenetrable digital fortresses since that doesn't exist and would actually be harmful for the consumer -- and those flaws born out of neglect. The latter should be specified and treated accordingly, because it isn't a val…

Your point are generally good. I should say I drive a twenty year old car with an immobilizer chip and basic logic sounding the alarm when someone breaks a window to open a door. As far as I can tell, that makes it very secure. So it seems like the onus in the car manufacturers to create a vehicle at least as secure as this simple system.

Yes that is supposed to be the baseline, but the mentality of go fast, break things is just too seductive for the industry to pass on, apparently.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#843

Post by ivana111 »

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Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#844

Post by fennecbutt »

hoofhearted wrote: post #21

Sooo they have been stealing Infiniti's from my area recently with relative ease allegedly by using a Bluetooth obd2 reader connected to an android tablet running a pirated copy of some Nissan service tech software. Nobody from any of the Infiniti groups is 100% certain how they are doing it, but the best theory out there is above. Just the other night, a crew of dudes stole 3 Q50’s from my neighborhood with relative…

I don't know if I have a clip of it still but that was nowhere near as fast as my neighbor's range rover being stolen during pandemic, broad daylight, four hoodies walk into our car park (flats) and walk out of camera view, 30 seconds later they're driving the range rover past the camera view and presumably rammed the gate we have (since it was broken).

Both car manufacturers and police are useless and it's fucking inexcusable, imo.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#845

Post by fennecbutt »

ivana111 wrote: post #843

This is the first time since 4 months I contacted honest people through internet, I lost money with scam crypto company, I contacted 3 recovery companies, it turned all of them are scammers, Until I contacted recoverydarek@gmail.com, I sent them all information's about the scam company, then after few hours, they apologies to me and said they couldn't trace the asset, after giving them the information they needed fro…

Wow, first time I've seen crypto bot spam on HN

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#846

Post by saint_fiasco »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #264
newsclues wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are computers now. What do we know about computer security and physical access? If I can touch the machine, I can hack and own it. No level of technology will stop this. But cutting off the profit motive by making it very hard to export cars will have a massive impact on these crimes, and for old and new cars.

> No level of technology will stop this. Tell that to the FDA. I work in medical devices. It's no longer sufficient to throw up your hands and assume "well, they have their hands on the device, we can't stop them from doing anything." The new cybersecurity guidance anticipates an attacker having physical access to your Device and you are expected to understand and mitigate any impact that can have. Cars shouldn't be…

I'd bite that bullet.

The FDA should be less strict with their cybersecurity stuff. The amount of lives lost to the increased cost of care is not worth the increase in cybersecurity.

If medical devices have just enough security to stop people who don't have physical access to the device, just enough to make attacks at scale unfeasible, then that should be good enough IMO.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#847

Post by saint_fiasco »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #794
Geisterde wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets see, oooo tiktok, heres the kia challenge. Or maybe google "are kias secure". Whatever format you can understand, you will be presented several sources that explain the situation quite clearly.

And if you googled that three and a half years ago when you were actually buying the car? I bet you had to know exactly what to look for, and "problems with kias" wouldn't get the average person there.

Isn't there an aftermarket solution you can buy that would make the kia you bought three years ago more secure?

Sure, it sucks that you have to unexpectedly spend money on it, but when you bought a cheap car you knew you were taking the risk of having to deal with unknown unknowns.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#848

Post by sidewndr46 »

Chris2048 wrote: post #833
sidewndr46 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always dumbfounded by this obsession with video & license plates. What are you going to do with that information?

Give it to the police?.. Unless the tow truck is stolen, then who registered it?

Why would the police care? It's like people watched an episode of dragnet and now they think there are a bunch of guys down at the station working on their case. Probably in shifts?

After a hit and run I once had an officer tell me that running tags would be "a lot of work".

Last time I was victim of a hit and run in a motor vehicle the police had an eye witness statement and the physical vehicle itself. They declined to investigate. They told me it wouldn't matter because it wouldn't be prosecuted unless someone confessed.

The police do not exist to act as your personal investigation team.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#849

Post by Geisterde »

jrflowers wrote: post #790
Geisterde wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in the context of broad safety you have a point. Of course, you are more likely to die in places where police are responsible for your protection. The safest places people inhabit are their home, their work, places with private security measures. The negligence you speak of, how widespread would you say it is? Would you say the EPA dropped the ball preventing the east Palestine Ohio train derailment? Would you…

You make a good point. The government should not impose rules about what companies do and also the government should hold companies liable for what they do, which is a different thing from having rules

Yes, im not saying you shouldnt be able to sue. Im saying the government shouldnt set a magic bar that if companies hurdle they are without fault.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#850

Post by tomrod »

pdonis wrote: post #550
tomrod wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? UN has had tremendous impact in the world.

> UN has had tremendous impact in the world Perhaps, but if so, I think its impact is, at the very least, net negative, not net positive.

Heartily disagree. Having an avenue where nations can be shamed for their crimes against humanity as well as a central org that both announces common human rights and monitors for them is immensely useful on any normative ethics yardstick, whether utilitarian, essentialist, effective altruism, and so forth.
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