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Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

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Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt actively chooses which individuals violating the law to prosecute and not especially in progressive cities like San Francisco and Seattle, based on a set of their own principles vs the constitution written by their elected representatives.

Ah great, I'll simply caucus with That Other Party and lose my personal rights as a queer atheist. They'll also deport all my coworkers. Why didn't I think of that? Love it.

> Ah great, I'll simply caucus with That Other Party and lose my personal rights as a queer atheist.

You're creating a false dichotomy. We could prosecute criminals and not take initiative to remove rights for queer atheists. These are in no way related so it's weird to lump them in.

Besides, "That Other Other Party" who presumably doesn't want to take personal rights from queer atheists could simply prosecute the criminals themselves. If you like "That Other Other Party" overall and want to see criminals prosecuted, that's what you would pursue. But if you don't pursue that it's pretty clear you just don't want to see criminals prosecuted.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#92
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll end up banning windows at this rate, they're an egregious vulnerability in cars and buildings alike. American cities, soft on crime, can't stop thieves from breaking windows so maybe they'll go after car manufacturers and construction firms instead. Going after companies instead of criminals is more aligned with their left-wing sensibilities, I think that's what this is really about.

Seems reasonable. Doors, windows, walls, roofs and sub-basements should be such that you cannot simply pass through them. After all it is now quite trivial to break through. And surely this is failure that builders should be responsible for.

I genuinely cannot tell if this (specifically the last line) is satirical or not.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#93

Security flaws are not born equal. I think there is supposed to be a clear distinction between flaws inherent in technology -- since you only know what you know nobody should be expected to develop impenetrable digital fortresses since that doesn't exist and would actually be harmful for the consumer -- and those flaws born out of neglect. The latter should be specified and treated accordingly, because it isn't a val…

Guns can be made DIY, but laws still mitigate.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Kill all humans!" ~ Bender B. Rodriguez Headline the next day: "Crime rate on Earth now at an all-time low of zero percent!"

How do you calculate this value of zero percent? Divide all the crime cases of the previous day by the number of humans? And who wrote the headline?

> How do you calculate this value of zero percent?

This gets messy for obvious topological/continuity reasons, but a shocking number of applications are both correct and simple to reason about if you choose to define 0/0 == 0 (kind of like how if you choose to universally define sum(empty_set) == 0 and product(empty_set) == 1 then tons of higher-level formulae just work and don't have to special-case a base case).

In context, there's no good reason to pick that definition of 0/0 per se (other than my prior that 0/0 == 0 probably simplifies some downstream math), but it's kind of nice to see that if crime is at 0% then there is also zero crime.

> And who wrote the headline?

Now we're asking the real questions ;)

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#95

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. All vehicles are insecure. I can hook a tow truck to almost any vehicle, including an 80,000 lbs tractor trailer and drive off with it. That'd actually attract less attention that outright hotwiring a vehicle. The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US.

but then you'd need a tow truck.. Doesn't seem a lot simpler, anyone could snap a pic of your registration plate. I think towing a vehicle does attract a fair amount of attention, especially if there is no obvious reason for it. Also, they don't need to steal the car - if they can freely open it can can just steal anything inside.

A tow truck attracts attention - there will be a dozen witnesses who watch you do everything - not one will think to remember any details that can identify you. Just replace the vinyl sticker on the door with your false company name on after each job and you are safe from being caught.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which the government is not obligated to do in the US. Just a talking point - and the US has one of the most extensive criminal justice apparatuses of any country. This article is about Canada - which has largely failed to control its organized crime+ports situation, unlike authorities in the US where most organized crime is organized from abroad and so difficult to disrupt but also less effective.

[flagged]

1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand - you’re literally just pulling a specific criminal case out of your ass in a country of 315 million.

2. The perps were charged and indicted, hardly ‘not enforcing laws’.

3. Law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion exists in every developed country in the world.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#97

Canada needs to reinstate the national port police, and actually do their job in policing. Policy changes for cars or technology will not solve the lawlessness in Canada.

Agreed. I am not sure why Canada has had so much comparative trouble with organized crime

The port in question is in Montreal which is in the province of Quebec. The province of Quebec is a political minefield with special status that most politicians don't want to deal with.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#98
Philosophy warning:

I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws."

Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pass laws to supposedly prevent that behavior from manifesting.

This scenario is a great example of this phenomenon. Instead of discussing how car theft is fundamentally an unethical behavior, the discussion is about preventing some thing from being sold or existing, whether that be insecure vehicles or Flipper Zeroes. It's designing the playground so that kids can't get hurt, not teaching them how to play responsibly.

My theory is that this is a consequence of relativism and the general cultural exhaustion Western society seems to have with enforcing any sort of religious or ethical norms.

I really don't like the way this is going, because the end result is a world where limitations are hardwired into the environment, while at the same time you have zero ethical expectations of your fellow humans. It's very Hunger Games / Battle Royale, at a less hostile level.

Edit: just to clarify a point here. I'm not saying that there was no theft in the past, or that having ethical expectations instead of laws will somehow reduce all theft. I'm commenting more on the fact that the "new method" results in a different kind of world than the previous one (see the paragraph before this one.) It's a subtle point, but hopefully one I communicated well enough.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#99

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. All vehicles are insecure. I can hook a tow truck to almost any vehicle, including an 80,000 lbs tractor trailer and drive off with it. That'd actually attract less attention that outright hotwiring a vehicle. The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US.

> The solution is to identify, arrest, and prosecute criminals. Which the government is not obligated to do in the US.

I think it will take a multi-pronged approach that includes exactly this. Individuals must be held responsible for their actions. Car security also needs to be beefed up though. It's clearly not good enough.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#100
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple years in prison would mean that they cannot soon reoffend. Seems like reasonable solution to me.

Do you know what the recurrence rate is for U.S. prisons? It's around 44%. 44% of people released from prison, within a year, go on to commit another crime severe enough to end them up back in prison

That doesn't seem overly surprising. Just as the people who acted in 2010 in a fashion that did not land them in prison probably acted in a way in 2015 that also did not land them in prison, it's not shocking that people who acted in 2010 in a way that landed the in prison might also act in 2015 in a way that lands them in prison.

I don't think that being in prison from 2011 to 2014 caused them to act that way in 2015.

We're not going to randomly assign (mostly) law-abiding citizens to prison to measure whether prison adds propensity to [what would be re-]offend, but there probably is something that is different about the never-imprisoned vs previously-imprisoned population that informs future likelihood to be imprisoned.

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