Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 194 posts

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#121

Post by javajosh »

Epic doesn't make any PWAs as far as I know, so this is really just general shade thrown in Apple's direction. Despite Apple's dominant position, I empathize with the desire for less surface area and eliminating features only a tiny fraction of users ever used. PWAs occupy that weird space between an ordinary webapp (that you can still bookmark on the homescreen, AFAIK) and a full-blown app. It's not clear to me what the precise benefits are of a PWA over a regular webapp. A regular webapp can cache resources with E-Tag and Cache-Control http headers. A regular webapp has localstorage, etc. Maybe PWAs get always on server push? But what users actually want that anyway?

I personally don't use any PWAs and have never built one. When I want to target native iOS (or Android) I boot up a React Native project like a sane person. I like to attack Apple monopolistic practices as much as the next guy, but this seems overblown. PWAs seem like a red-headed stepchild of web app development and it makes sense to jettison support for them to simplify the operating system and related APIs.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#122

Post by szasamasa »

rambambram wrote: post #21

> Now, web apps will function as website bookmarks — without support for local storage, badges, notifications and dedicated windowing. This one is essential, at least to me. Access from the home screen is not completely blocked. I can do without notifications and local storage for my simple web apps. A lot of other people do need 'progressive' web apps, so I understand these changes are especially nasty to them. It's…

in my definition an app is a standalone UX

a website in standalone mode is a web "app", so web apps are not possible in Safari if the website, even if uses all the modern web capabilities, cannot get rid of the browser bar... it is a shortcut to a website in tab mode then

in addition, we still not know which web capabilities Apple plans to disallow in websites, and will it be also disallowed in competing browsers?

is offline website with service worker caching possible? it seems to be disabled according to some beta testers...

I mean for you local storage may be not important but what a disadvantage it is for web programming if Apple clears local storage without the permission of the user as they do it in Safari tabs?

the whole absence of future guarantees is one of the biggest problems, because web programming is a strategy that companies could make now to deploy good web apps in 2-3 years...

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#123

Post by LilBytes »

torlok wrote: post #30

It sucks that the conversation always gets hijacked by people who should not be throwing stones, and ends up being a "debate" where there shouldn't be one.

There's something to be said about Hacker News dialogue in the last few years. Where a large contingent of members discuss contraction opinions about a topic that either misunderstands or misinterprets the intent of the original message for the sake of engagement.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#124

Post by ufocia »

szasamasa wrote: post #85
formerly_proven wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I use iOS and friends in part because I want good, well-made apps that work well and integrate into the OS well - and not poorly made webapps that don't have an address bar. To that end I dislike all the faux-native iOS apps that are just a webview with a menu. It's always quite obvious when people do that. So even if I would've known about HSWAs being a thing (and not just "bookmarks on the home screen", which i…

there are poorly made native apps too there is a fix number of good programmers... these good programmers can create the exact same wonderful interactive pixels on your screen whether they use native or web tech, if web tech is allowed it is the decision of the developers what they use and offer to you but again, if good developers migrate to become good web programmers in the future that you fear then you become goo…

It's apparent that by good you mean skillful and not benevolent. However, even skillful programmers write bad code especially when under time and budget constraints.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#125

Post by ufocia »

ffsm8 wrote: post #95
cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way that I can not like the same things that you like without you thinking that I’m not smart?

[flagged]

You too can get off this train rather than play the victim with ad hominem attacks.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#126

Post by Kwpolska »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #67
cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

I use one PWA, and it's working pretty well. One of my banks has an app that is just a web view (listed on the Play Store), and it's a bit janky at times.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#127

Post by amelius »

tristor wrote: post #117
djfdat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their hands are pretty much tied. That's called monopoly position.

Apple doesn’t have a monopoly position by any base measure. What it has is a monopoly on is high income and wealthy users, and these are the most valuable users for all the companies complaining. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The majority of people in the world use Android not Apple. The majority of the people in the world are also poor and not good marketing targets. These two groups have a Venn diagr…

Yes, but EU trade committee members are also in that Venn diagram somewhere ;)

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#128

Post by jasonjayr »

jsnell wrote: post #115
jasonjayr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could choose to make the option front and center. Firefox has it as a primary option on the main menu. The reason that devs don't target or improve it is the friction Apple (and Google to a degree) they put in front of utilizing PWA/web apps.

Chrome on Android has "Install App" in the main menu. It allows for sites to trigger an install flow without going any browser menus (you can e.g. have an "Install" button on a site, and clicking it will diredctly open a PWA installation prompt). In addition to that, Android supports PWAs in the Play Store. It supports other browsers, and doesn't restrict them from installing PWAs or providing alternate installation…

Google's implementation is nice, I agree, but I'm talking about richer APIs for PWAs, on parity with native apps.

I imagine Google could, now that Apple is being forced to allow multiple browsers, have a 'Chrome launcher' for PWAs on iOS. It can't put it on the home screen, but it could present itself as a 'Folder' of apps, that are all web based.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#129

Post by makeitdouble »

carlosjobim wrote: post #118
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #13

Does Apple think its shenanigans are going to precipitate a backlash against EU regulation? Because every time I read about a new round of BS my blood boils and my attitude against Apple and other huge anticompetitive corporates just hardens.

> my blood boils Why? You have the option to avoid Apple completely and not have them interfere in your life what so ever, and it's an easy choice. Just don't buy their products. Your blood should boil for things that you can not easily avoid in life. You're wasting your passion on completely meaningless things. In the end, it's just phones and computers.

We're on HN, as devs I think it's natural to care about how a major and influencial platform is managed, even if we're not using it personally.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#130

Post by szasamasa »

endisneigh wrote: post #34
amelius wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a winner-takes-all market. Nobody is going to buy several pieces of hardware to access several pieces of software. Just like nobody likes to have 5 different subscriptions to access Netflix, HBO, Prime, Disney, Hulu ... The fact that we have a duopoly instead of a monopoly is already a miracle.

Precisely. Stop supporting iOS and watch their attitude change. Fact is these companies whine but don’t pull their apps.

it is wishful thinking, if you pull spotify people will use another app on iOS... the way forward is alternative app sotres, the web as an app store etc... competition

more exciting is visionOS, I hope Netflix and co. NEVER make native apps and force Apple to support web browser based solutions

Post reply on HN