Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#81

Post by loloquwowndueo » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:54 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #35

endisneigh wrote: post #16

I wish all of these folks complaining about Apple would go on strike and stop developing stuff on their hardware instead of whining. Even better if they could make their own hardware without any of the supposed baggage with the software. A lot of these companies whining are worth billions so they can afford it. Of course, they won’t because they want money just like Apple, but if Spotify, epic etc stopped working on…

IDK about making their own hardware, but it is weird to me that people complain and then continue to buy iPhones and develop for iOS. If developers and users moved to Android, Apple would change. Is Android really so bad that people feel forced to use iOS?

Yes it is.

Smirk aside, yes I have tried Android devices before and I find them basically unusable so iOS it is for me.

Not in the EU so these changes don’t affect me, that may play a role.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#82

Post by eptcyka » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:55 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #70

cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

I want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anything she is going to install that has permission to use phone features; like cameras. She would very much concur, insofar as she understands the issues. She's using an iPhone specifically because Apple doesn't go for shenanigans like multiple ways to get apps…

Having an app for everything is orthogonal to supporting web apps in Safari. Apple does not need volunteer PR.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#83

Post by dartharva » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:55 PM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #20

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

The general population in Canada and USA, perhaps. The rest of the world knows and uses mobile web apps extensively.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#84

Post by willsmith72 » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:56 PM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #20

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

hate to break it to you, but PWAs can be distributed to the app store too. that's not an argument against PWAs

https://www.pwabuilder.com/

btw in teams i've worked in, the app store was never the biggest source of discovery for our app. it was way more often a direct link from our website, socials or other marketing

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#85

Post by szasamasa » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:59 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #28

edhelas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

No, I use iOS and friends in part because I want good, well-made apps that work well and integrate into the OS well - and not poorly made webapps that don't have an address bar. To that end I dislike all the faux-native iOS apps that are just a webview with a menu. It's always quite obvious when people do that. So even if I would've known about HSWAs being a thing (and not just "bookmarks on the home screen", which i…

there are poorly made native apps too

there is a fix number of good programmers...

these good programmers can create the exact same wonderful interactive pixels on your screen whether they use native or web tech, if web tech is allowed

it is the decision of the developers what they use and offer to you but again, if good developers migrate to become good web programmers in the future that you fear then you become good web apps from them, you will not even know the difference

currently, most good programmers use native languages because Apple restricts even now web tech and good programmers are payed to program in swift

you can chill since those websites and web apps you see bad were made by bad programmers not because web tech is inferior... you know, js just instructs native browsers that are native apps so actually web tech can be just the same (with better security if you use secure browsers)

if 1 million programmers create native apps and half is bad half is great and you really see a discrepancy in native vs. web itis simply because more bad than great programmers are currently "designing" web sites

good programmers will not be forced to use web tech and fail to deleiver good UX :)

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#86

Post by rasengan » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 1:59 PM UTC

flappyeagle wrote: post #72

rasengan wrote: post #14

The PWA was all but ready to compete directly with apps and in a decentralized way. The world was excited with Apple finally supporting web push notifications. Apple ended this excitement recently with this news. Tis a sad day for decentralization and the un censorship of mobile.

This is specifically for the EU market. I have a very hard time caring. I don’t think it makes much of a difference

We cannot have apps without Apple’s approval now.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#87

Post by pxoe » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 2:00 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #70

cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

I want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anything she is going to install that has permission to use phone features; like cameras. She would very much concur, insofar as she understands the issues. She's using an iPhone specifically because Apple doesn't go for shenanigans like multiple ways to get apps…

why should everyone else obide by that level of strictness of control and limitations, particularly ones that are brought upon by people who can't really use their phone well? put it in a parental control mode, have that limit functionality, instead of being like 'well...people who can't use their phones, wouldn't be able to use those features - so they need to go'.

there should be a way to make a phone secure (including via optionally disabling features - and giving those controls to the user, instead of being at whim and will of manufacturer), without giving up that functionality for literally everybody.

and they kinda did make something like that, didn't they tout their "senior mode" thing recently? assistive access. there's the solution. so put their phone into a "more secure" assistive access mode, or parental control mode with limited apps, and leave everybody else who actually knows how to do things to their own devices.

bottom line, even without sideloading or whatever, app store still exists, as does internet, browsers, voice calls (the regular phone ones) and sms. all run a possibility of getting scammed any way. if you're so concerned, might as well opt for a dumb phone, or no phone at all.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#88

Post by AshamedCaptain » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 2:01 PM UTC

> [...] malicious web apps could read data from other apps and gain access to a user’s camera, microphone or location with user consent, the company noted.

> Since Apple is being forced to allow alternative browser engines via the DMA’s requirements, the company chose not to put users at risk and instead degraded the web app experience on iOS for users in the EU. Now, web apps will function as website bookmarks — without support for local storage, badges, notifications and dedicated windowing.

But with access to a user’s camera, microphone or location. Go figure.

I'm sure there is someone out there who will buy this argument.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#89

Post by anon373839 » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 2:03 PM UTC

throwaway11460 wrote: post #67

cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

Android isn't exactly a control group in this context. A major appeal of web apps, apart from their freedom from gatekeeping, is that they're cross-platform. But a cross-platform technology is a lot less appealing to invest in when one of the major platforms barely supports / sabotages it.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#90

Post by roenxi » Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

pxoe wrote: post #87

roenxi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want my mother to have as safe a phone as possible with a bare minimum of ways she can accidentally get hacked. Ideally with a gatekeeper between her and anything she is going to install that has permission to use phone features; like cameras. She would very much concur, insofar as she understands the issues. She's using an iPhone specifically because Apple doesn't go for shenanigans like multiple ways to get apps…

why should everyone else obide by that level of strictness of control and limitations, particularly ones that are brought upon by people who can't really use their phone well? put it in a parental control mode, have that limit functionality, instead of being like 'well...people who can't use their phones, wouldn't be able to use those features - so they need to go'. there should be a way to make a phone secure (inclu…

> why should everyone else...

They shouldn't. Everyone should buy the phone that best suits their needs. That might be an Android phone or a whatever. Windows maybe. They're all good phones.

The issue is, for my family that is iPhones and people like Mr. Sweeney are trying to wheedle the EU into making iPhones worse for iPhone buyers. We don't need regulators trying to help by making iPhones worse. If you don't like what iPhones do, don't buy one. I think literally every manufacturer in the phone market has figured out how to make a great phone that looks and acts like an iPhone with minor differences.