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Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

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71–80 of 194 posts

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#71
post #59

It's incredibly convenient for Apple that there's overlap between safety features and anti-competive behaviors. Every time somebody says "I don't want vendor lock-in", they flip it to "Oh, so you don't want safety?" But these are often false dichotomies created by Apple. Reviewing and rejecting apps for fraud and malware is great, but Apple bundled that with rejecting apps for using the word "Android" and whatever ot…

This is the best-worded form of this argument I've seen. Thanks!

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#72

The PWA was all but ready to compete directly with apps and in a decentralized way. The world was excited with Apple finally supporting web push notifications. Apple ended this excitement recently with this news. Tis a sad day for decentralization and the un censorship of mobile.

This is specifically for the EU market. I have a very hard time caring. I don’t think it makes much of a difference

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#73
post #64
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

Do you think there's a general lack of awareness or education these days about the world wide web? People who grew up with the internet couldn't get by without knowing the possibilities of websites and web browsers. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I view web apps through that lens -- if an "app" merely wraps a website or otherwise relies on internet connectivity for core functionality I'd rather just use a full-bloo…

Why would anyone care? Techies love to speak as if this is a matter of “education”. The reality is that people quite rightfully just don’t care.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#74
post #46

What are people's thoughts on Apple's argument: >Addressing the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps using alternative browser engines would require building an entirely new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and was not practical to undertake given the other demands of the DMA and the very low user adoption of Home Screen web apps. >In short, Apple is saying it kn…

The homescreen engine has always been dodgy — it has different bugs than Safari app, so it seems to be a different version/fork of WebKit. It was always against their interest to support this feature too well, so it's probably old and full of tech debt.

I believe them when they say it would require a rewrite to work safely in a browser-agnostic way, but that sounds bizarrely like "complying with the law was too much work, so we chose not to".

Now they've made all App Store alternatives suck in one way or another, and fragmented between EU and non-EU markets. It's a total mess that just happens to make App Store with Apple's usual fees the best option.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#75
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

The same subset of people who just go to the App Store just take their car to the dealership for oil changes (a lot) As tech people we tend to see through apples "dealer" bullshit, just like car people.

Is there a way that I can not like the same things that you like without you thinking that I’m not smart?

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#76
post #50
post #11

Let's say I want to make a little dashboard for a home server that I can view on my iPhone in full screen. If I live in the EU, how am I supposed to add it to my home screen? I can't put it on the App Store even if I wanted to - it's for a local server so it won't pass review. I can't just use a local debug build - those expire after a week or so. What can I even do here?

Open a developer account with Apple. Get your app Notarized (not the same as App Store review). List your app on an alternative app marketplace, agreeing to their terms of service. Download it from there.

Have you seen the terms for alternative app stores and terms for listing your app on an alternative app store? I don't think there will be many options there either, and if they are, they will not be good due to the policies Apple chose to set forth.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#77
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a winner-takes-all market. Nobody is going to buy several pieces of hardware to access several pieces of software. Just like nobody likes to have 5 different subscriptions to access Netflix, HBO, Prime, Disney, Hulu ... The fact that we have a duopoly instead of a monopoly is already a miracle.

Precisely. Stop supporting iOS and watch their attitude change. Fact is these companies whine but don’t pull their apps.

Because their hands are pretty much tied. That's called monopoly position.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#78
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How are Android web apps going? An argument based on a hypothetical is inherently weak.

I never claimed Google isn't doing something similar with the Play store.

They might not choose to limit functionality as much but Android does not have first-class support for web apps either.

Windows uses executables and msi's as programs and users know that these programs are first-class citizens. Almost nbody on mobile knows about apk's and ipa's. These systems were designed to inherently educate the user that software can only be installed via one place.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#79
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

I'm not saying Android is a lot better. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39419057

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#80
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

I don’t know much about Android, I haven’t used Android in more than a decade.

But it seems Adblock would come out of the box in a user friendly mobile operating system. I’m guessing Google, Samsung, etc aren’t much better than Apple in this regard.

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