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Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

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Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#31

Post by zer00eyz »

edhelas wrote: post #25
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

The same subset of people who just go to the App Store just take their car to the dealership for oil changes (a lot)

As tech people we tend to see through apples "dealer" bullshit, just like car people.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#32

Post by edandersen »

Presuming Apple left PWAs in just as they were with no changes, i.e. hardcoded to Safari, wouldn't Mozilla (and potentially MS) have immediately sued or complained that Apple was in violation of the DMA by not allowing their browser engines to launch from user added home screen icons?

If this is the case then leaving PWAs as they stood risked bazillions in fines from the EU. No?

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#33

Post by amelius »

endisneigh wrote: post #16

I wish all of these folks complaining about Apple would go on strike and stop developing stuff on their hardware instead of whining. Even better if they could make their own hardware without any of the supposed baggage with the software. A lot of these companies whining are worth billions so they can afford it. Of course, they won’t because they want money just like Apple, but if Spotify, epic etc stopped working on…

It's a winner-takes-all market. Nobody is going to buy several pieces of hardware to access several pieces of software. Just like nobody likes to have 5 different subscriptions to access Netflix, HBO, Prime, Disney, Hulu ...

The fact that we have a duopoly instead of a monopoly is already a miracle.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#34

Post by endisneigh »

amelius wrote: post #33
endisneigh wrote: post #16

I wish all of these folks complaining about Apple would go on strike and stop developing stuff on their hardware instead of whining. Even better if they could make their own hardware without any of the supposed baggage with the software. A lot of these companies whining are worth billions so they can afford it. Of course, they won’t because they want money just like Apple, but if Spotify, epic etc stopped working on…

It's a winner-takes-all market. Nobody is going to buy several pieces of hardware to access several pieces of software. Just like nobody likes to have 5 different subscriptions to access Netflix, HBO, Prime, Disney, Hulu ... The fact that we have a duopoly instead of a monopoly is already a miracle.

Precisely. Stop supporting iOS and watch their attitude change.

Fact is these companies whine but don’t pull their apps.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#35

Post by matwood »

endisneigh wrote: post #16

I wish all of these folks complaining about Apple would go on strike and stop developing stuff on their hardware instead of whining. Even better if they could make their own hardware without any of the supposed baggage with the software. A lot of these companies whining are worth billions so they can afford it. Of course, they won’t because they want money just like Apple, but if Spotify, epic etc stopped working on…

IDK about making their own hardware, but it is weird to me that people complain and then continue to buy iPhones and develop for iOS. If developers and users moved to Android, Apple would change. Is Android really so bad that people feel forced to use iOS?

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#36

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

Ezhik wrote: post #11

Let's say I want to make a little dashboard for a home server that I can view on my iPhone in full screen. If I live in the EU, how am I supposed to add it to my home screen? I can't put it on the App Store even if I wanted to - it's for a local server so it won't pass review. I can't just use a local debug build - those expire after a week or so. What can I even do here?

Taking the question literally, don’t buy Apple products in the future (or do, assuming regulations effect change in Apple’s APIs).

Not to argue in support of Apple here -- I disagree with many decisions which limit what I can do with hardware I purchase, including their “webkit only” policy. But there’s still a certain understanding about the current state of Apple products such that I find it a bit hard to sympathize with someone who bought an iphone expecting this sort of custom interoperability. (A non-technical user is far less likely to want this level of customization and a technical one really ought to know better.)

To your point, however, I do certainly hope that changes. It’d be really nice to be able to reasonably consider general purpose hardware to be practically useful for... ahem general purposes.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#38

Post by jasonjayr »

withinboredom wrote: post #6
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

Just to make a supporting argument to this... I introduced my son to neal.fun this morning and he asked "can you make this easier for me to get to?" and I was like, "sure, there's some way to pin it to the home screen." I know this feature exists and I've even written code to support this feature ... yet I spent nearly 5 minutes looking for the button. Hiding it in the share sheet is downright stupid.

Apple could choose to make the option front and center.

Firefox has it as a primary option on the main menu.

The reason that devs don't target or improve it is the friction Apple (and Google to a degree) they put in front of utilizing PWA/web apps.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#39

Post by [deleted] »

formerly_proven wrote: post #28
edhelas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

No, I use iOS and friends in part because I want good, well-made apps that work well and integrate into the OS well - and not poorly made webapps that don't have an address bar. To that end I dislike all the faux-native iOS apps that are just a webview with a menu. It's always quite obvious when people do that. So even if I would've known about HSWAs being a thing (and not just "bookmarks on the home screen", which i…

[deleted]

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#40

Post by interpol_p »

withinboredom wrote: post #6
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

Just to make a supporting argument to this... I introduced my son to neal.fun this morning and he asked "can you make this easier for me to get to?" and I was like, "sure, there's some way to pin it to the home screen." I know this feature exists and I've even written code to support this feature ... yet I spent nearly 5 minutes looking for the button. Hiding it in the share sheet is downright stupid.

It's pretty well hidden to the point of "why do they bother supporting this feature?"
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