If we were to design a third OS Ecosystem. May be an OS that is based entirely on Web? And let all Apps be PWA?
Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
771–780 of 829 posts
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#772Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it a mob if it's democratically elected? People have the most random and poorly thought out talking points.
Nothing says a mob cant be democratically elected. Many mobs have had wide support by their community Its more the shakedowns I’m talking about.
Which shakedowns ?
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#773Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience even "a few extras privileges" can take many months to implement, especially for a company as large as Apple.
The EU gave them six months after being designated as a gatekeeper. The regulation already entered into force an additional ten months earlier, so Apple arguably could have already prepared for their likely designation. The real issue, however, is that Apple is not saying “we need more time to implement the APIs”, which the EU would very likely concede, but “we don’t think it’s worth it for us”.
Is that teally an issue? From a legal perspective (as a layman) Apples decision seems fine for me. So how can we say "bad Apple" if they're legally doing it correct?
That does not mean that their decision is the proper one, just that it's legally ok.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#774Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is completely wrong. Judges very much care about the spirit of the law, and frequently discuss it in their decisions, both in common law jurisdictions and in other systems. The justice system is not a computer following logical instructions.
Judges can talk about the spirit of the law all they want. If they don't base decisions on the letter of it they'll set themselves up to be overruled on appeal. Prosecutors also can't bring up charges on violating the spirit of a law.
To many legal scholars, and to most lay people, the actual law is the spirit, the letter is just there to help note down what the spirit was.
If someone thinks they are safe to ignore the spirit of a law because of a quirk of how it is worded, they will often find they are wrong, and have charges brought against them anyway, and lose at trial and any number of appellate courts. Conversely, if someone is convicted based on a technicality where they broke the letter of the law, but not the spirit, that conviction is very likely to be overturned on appeal.
Of course, the spirit and the letter of the law can't be arbitrarily divorced from one another. One can't claim that the letter of the law says "you shall not kill", but the spirit of the law is that it's ok to kill but only on the full moon. But if a law says "don't lie to prosecutors", and they ask me what I did on some day, and I tell them X and Y and don't mention Z, I won't be able to claim that the law didn't techniclaly say not to omit information.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#775Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to wait for Apple to fail? You can use free software phones today . The Librem 5 is a good example.
Isn't that the one that's super expensive, ships like an unreliable Kickstarter, and lives in a Linux ecosystem that's just a sad replica of old smartphones?
Yep!
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#776Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just imagine all the corruption that would be possible!
You do realise that this position is by appointment by a council made up of members voted in by representative democracies, right? That there are checks and balances (courts and oversight committees) that weigh in regularly on decisions made by these kinds of appointed offices, right?
Of course, that's always how it works!
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#777Earlier quoted context omitted.
They built their PWA support with assumptions about how the application, OS, and WebKit were going to run. That's like saying, "Oh, Microsoft didn't build an API layer into Windows to support running X11 apps side by side with Win32 apps, so they were being monopolistic." No, you have limited engineering time and you make engineering tradeoffs. You don't need to design an interface layer and API and hooks between sys…
No, it's saying that they shouldn't have designed a operating system with no support for other browsers (unlike lesser known alternatives such as "Apple Mac OS X") in the first place and that you shouldn't have any sympathy when such an anticompetitive technical design and behavior blows up in their face. > They built it in such a way that it was sustainable and sensible for the time it was made (iOS 2.0). Support fo…
> did figure it out at the same time.
And it probably took the space a non trivial amount of time to figure it out whilst apple allocated their time on other features.
Now a regulation says that Apple should figure it out and Apple says they'd prefer to continue to allocate their time on other features.
Apple is not government company, they do not make decision on what makes all users happy, regardless of how small the feature they are building is. They make decision based on how much profit they're expected to make. Apple probably calculated the efforts and possible profits on this and profits would probably be negative on both options to either build pwa support on arbitrary browsers vs remove pwa support on all browsers altogether. Removing support was probably the option that showed lower profit loss across the short term.
In the end, I still think it's a bad move, but why should Apple care about what I think?
I don't use pwas, I don't even use apple products.
They are being rightfully forced to open all their gatekeeping features, in this case, they simply chose to remove the feature as a whole instead of opening it up to everyone. They will take a loss here, but it might be a smaller loss when compared with the effort that they'd have to do if they were to open the feature in the limited time the EU has given them.
Maybe in the future they'll do it, but not now.
I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up about this, apple is in it for the profit, even if it mean losing some in the short term. Why is this so surprising?
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#778Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recommend that everyone interested in this topic read some of the comments from PWA developers at: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268643 Apple’s decision is going to kill businesses and break apps used by hundreds of thousands of people in Europe, many of whom are healthcare workers delivering patient care.
Patient care apps as PWAs? Yikes.
Eric, we need answers!
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#779Very questionable argumentation. This can be seen from two different angles: 1. PWA is a native wrapper for a web application, not a browser. It is supposed to be limited to the app website. DMA does not tell Apple that every app with embedded WebView should offer users possibility to switch the engine. Why PWA should be treated differently here? I‘d rather clarify this with regulators first, before harming end users…
> In the meantime current solution could stay simply because it does not hinder any competition. As I understand it, this is specifically not allowed by the DMA, since it would be considered an unfair advantage to Safari, if that browser/engine was the only one allowed to run PWAs.
By the same logic the mere existence of Safari would be unfair because other browsers are not ported yet. This is of course incorrect reading of DMA. Have a look yourself:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?toc=OJ%3AL%3...
If Apple demonstrates that the entry barrier is sufficiently low by cooperating with other vendors, how one could possibly build a legal case under DMA against them? On the contrary, by disabling PWA in Safari Apple acts as a gate keeper complicating access to the platform for business users. THIS is what DMA forbids.
Also it has to be taken into account that the less PWA engines exist the lower is actually the entry barrier. We only need 2-3 competing solutions max to support innovation without harming PWA developers.
Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose
#780Earlier quoted context omitted.
Last time I checked, Apples holdings are all based in Ireland. So from a legal standpoint, it's a Irish company, held accountable by EU law. It can't "simply leave".
How long do you think it would take them to move?
Remember Brexit and how long it took corporations to move their entities? It’s 12-36 months, from my experience in investment banking at the time.