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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#631

Post by beeboobaa »

saiya-jin wrote: post #521
madeofpalk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's why they say that "would require building an entirely new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and was not practical to undertake given the other demands of the DMA and the very low user adoption of Home Screen web apps"

Well, this is just 'we don't want to do it because our market projections steer us in a different direction, but we really don't have any solid arguments so here is some blah our marketing & legal came up with'. 3 trillion company can implement this without breaking a sweat properly if they cared, what are they trying to say here - 'we are incompetent'? Not buying that for a second, we know they can deliver.

More like "that pesky eu is forcing us to behave like a normal company and we don't like that. Let's punish the users in hopes they'll revolt"

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#632

Post by cal85 »

afavour wrote: post #348
thimp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

You’re right but a lot of that has to do with discoverability and the lack thereof on iOS. On Android you can show an install prompt via the browser or even package your PWA to be distributed via the Play Store. On iOS you have to do a strange incantation of “sharing” a web page to your Home Screen via a submenu. Its utterly unituitive so it’s not too surprising that most don’t.

I think it's pretty feasible for a web app (assuming the user trusts it) to prompt a user and explain how to add it to homescreen from iOS Safari. I can imagine, and think I've seen in the past, a nice-enough UI flow to get people to install a PWA. After explaining the benefits, you have an "Add to Home Screen" CTA button. When the user taps that, if it's iOS Safari, you pop up a modal that visually explains the two steps required, which are (1) tapping the button at the bottom of the screen, and (2) tapping the "Add to Home Screen" menu item. (OK they need to do one final tap on 'Add' to confirm the title, but most users who've got this far would manage that on their own.)

I agree that's not as good as a native install prompt but I don't think it's a strange incantation/utterly unintuitive. I know that icon originally meant 'share' but these days it means a wider range of things - basically "take this thing somewhere else".

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#633

Post by beeboobaa »

madeofpalk wrote: post #592
Sabinus wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm not concerned with the costs of an EU mandate on Apple for interoperability but that could just be me.

You've not been asked to be concerned. Apple is saying what their reasoning is, and you can believe it or not, but you don't have to feel pitty for them.

Apple is just playing pr games trying to get their cult followers to rage against the DMA which apple hates having to follow. So yes, people are being asked.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#634

Post by rmbyrro »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

That's very informative, thank you.

The "community note" of HN.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#635

Post by rmbyrro »

beeboobaa wrote: post #625
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

What an absolute crock of shit. Someone at apple must be feeling really, really pathetic lately. Why can't they just get over themselves and actually deliver a useful product instead of trying to achieve cult status?

I dislike how Apple is evolving as an evil corporate, but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#636

Post by pantulis »

yreg wrote: post #538
pantulis wrote: post #537

Perhaps it has already been said but, didn't Steve Jobs state that "The SDK is the web", on the original iPhone launch?

He did, but strategies change over time.

Even Steve changed when the App Store was launched, of course!

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#637

Post by afavour »

cal85 wrote: post #632
afavour wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right but a lot of that has to do with discoverability and the lack thereof on iOS. On Android you can show an install prompt via the browser or even package your PWA to be distributed via the Play Store. On iOS you have to do a strange incantation of “sharing” a web page to your Home Screen via a submenu. Its utterly unituitive so it’s not too surprising that most don’t.

I think it's pretty feasible for a web app (assuming the user trusts it) to prompt a user and explain how to add it to homescreen from iOS Safari. I can imagine, and think I've seen in the past, a nice-enough UI flow to get people to install a PWA. After explaining the benefits, you have an "Add to Home Screen" CTA button. When the user taps that, if it's iOS Safari, you pop up a modal that visually explains the two…

It’s definitely possible, I’ve done it myself in the past (it’s still very annoying owing to the different position of button on iPhone vs iPad) and the analytics show some users get it. But as compared to “find us in the App Store” it’s night and day.

It’s also a very inconsistent experience: some sites have set themselves up as fully featured PWAs, others have made no efforts at all. Both get the same button.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#638

Post by AlienRobot »

neurostimulant wrote: post #452
wokwokwok wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

> if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? But browsers already have this security features that isolates websites from each other? How come PWA, which essentially just placing a website shortcut in the home screen and hiding browser ui, affect browser's existing security features?

I thought the whole point of PWAs was that they could access user files directly, which they wouldn't be able to as a webpage inside a browser's sandbox? If that's not the case it's just a bookmark.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#639

Post by agust »

rmbyrro wrote: post #635
beeboobaa wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolute crock of shit. Someone at apple must be feeling really, really pathetic lately. Why can't they just get over themselves and actually deliver a useful product instead of trying to achieve cult status?

I dislike how Apple is evolving as an evil corporate, but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue.

Just like they had when asked to support alternative browser engines, but the DMA formally mandates it, sot they did comply and allowed them.

All other OSes support web app installation from any browser, including macOS. This is a lot more secure than installing any native app.

This is just Apple spreading FUD as an excuse to keep preventing web apps from competing with native apps.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#640

Post by fauigerzigerk »

visarga wrote: post #541
the_gipsy wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im going to ditch my iPhone in favor of a Pixel. This attitude has pushed me over the edge, and the device isn't really any better than Android. Some aspects yes, but other are much worse. Dark patterns like the appstore/web/browsers restrictions and iCloud upselling are a big no-no. Never again.

my last Pixel had shit battery compared to iPhone, buyer beware

I own a Pixel 7a and an iPhone 14. Battery life is too similar for me to notice a difference. I never systematically tested it though. Pixel 6 was the same as well.

The only phone I owned recently that had really terrible battery life even when new was the iPhone 12 mini.

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