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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#591
post #426
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWA’s on Android can be installed directly from a website…it’s awesome, less friction and less scammy than the Play Store. On iOS you need to use the Share > Add to Home Screen which normies have no clue about. You’ll find out if the site supports PWA features AFTER you add it to your Home Screen. This of course is done entirely on purpose to make them harder to find and less appealing than the revenue generating App…

Google should in theory have the same play store revenue motivation to hide PWAs, right? Granted, they also want people to stay on the web to continue using Google.com, so I guess those are two competing priorities. That to me is a bit of an indicator that Apple just doesn’t believe in the merits of the technology. I think they might be asking the same question in asking: what problem is this solving? Every platform…

Kind of, it's just that the approach Google takes is a lot more palatable than Apple's. As someone who has written a PWA (albeit one that almost entirely relies on SSR), Google's PWA approach is definitely better than Apple, but there's some marked issues.

For one, the actual PWA packaging process gets shunted off to a Google server; I think you can make a "thin client" APK from a manifest using a tool they wrote some time ago[0] (Twitter Lite is one of these), but I've not really looked into it. It's not quite the extension to Chrome you'd really want it to be; if you use a non-Chrome browser on Android, it means you can't really ditch the Chrome dependency if you want to use a PWA. (Further not really helped by the fact that Google is basically the only PWA implementer on Android, since Firefox does not consider PWAs a priority whatsoever.) Similarly, Google's servers need to be able to read out the manifest declaration, which makes them unfeasible for intranet software unless you want to punch a temporary hole and expose it to the internet for a bit.

The other kinda annoying thing Google does is really aggressive degradation between PWA and homescreen shortcut. If the manifest isn't entirely up to snuff in terms of what's listed, there's no attempt at trying to resolve the issue, it just instantly degrades to a homescreen shortcut. A basic example of this is the requirement to use a service worker (even if the service workers entire job is to do nothing); it's not really stated in the manifest spec that it's required, but if you don't have one, the PWA straight up refuses to install as a PWA.

Google's strength with the play store really mostly comes from their bundling advantage; Play Services and the attached Store and Google Apps are required for OEMs to add to their devices (might change with the DMA?). That's the kinda odd reality that makes Apples desire for control seem so extreme - we know what an open platform looks like on Android. It works pretty well for the most part and the incumbents advantage for a store is large enough that almost every app developer submits to the Play Store regardless.

[0]: It's called Bubblewrap - https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/bubblewrap

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's why they say that "would require building an entirely new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and was not practical to undertake given the other demands of the DMA and the very low user adoption of Home Screen web apps"

Personally, I'm not concerned with the costs of an EU mandate on Apple for interoperability but that could just be me.

You've not been asked to be concerned. Apple is saying what their reasoning is, and you can believe it or not, but you don't have to feel pitty for them.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#593
post #396

It's news like this that makes me want to trade my iPhone for the closest Android phone.

Then do it and stop complaining. This isn’t a charity it’s a company. What company doesn’t have their best interest in mind? Don’t even say a FOSS company like Red Hat because that would be bull.

The country you lived for past 10 years started curbing the freedom then the solution is "just change country" is it? Ofcourse its a solution but not the only solution. You don't have right to say that just move away and stop complaining, that's not how things work.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>low usage This is hilarious. As a developer, if PWAs work properly I'm much more interested in writing them, test them on ios and market them to ios users. If the feature is uncertain, or outright broken like now of course no sane, businesses sense driven dev will spend the time to build a PWA app specifically for iOS.

I have never used PWAs, so could you elaborate what you mean with ‘work properly’? What happens now that is not ideal?

Now that push notifications and long-term localstorage are disabled, a PWA can't compete. Not being able to send notifications to your user is a huge drawback for many types of apps, and limiting localstorage means that offline capabilities are limited, so PWAs will require increased access to a network as compared to native apps.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#595

I am on Apples side here. I have been a macOS and iPhone user for over a decade now, but have had Android devices and I use Windows for games and work. I think what the EU has done to Apple is unfair. It is unfortunate in my opinion that they can’t just tell them to get stuffed. They have had to build probably 100-million LOCs just so EU have the right to pick their own browser, and yet Safari works just fine. In fac…

how would you feel about having option to only use Safari on your macOS?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#596
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't entirely trust Apple. We just trust them more than other vendors.

This is a false dichotomy. Completely trusting any single entity who doesn't really care about you (and only cares about extracting money from you) is riskier than trusting FLOSS, which is being constantly verified by independent actors.

That is not really how it works though. Look at the amount of limping, poorly implemented FLOSS software there is out there where the maintainers show no interest at all or there is no funding to support it. Look at the whole OpenSSL mess a while back.

I honestly prefer to pay a vendor who will (a) complete a product until it's usable (b) be motivated to maintain it because they are paid and (c) be motivated to maintain it because they are scared of the bad PR of not maintaining it.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social contract has been that these big companies benefit from the free work of open source maintainers, and they continue to work together to support open standards. This latest maneuver from Apple, while well within their rights, is a big FU to everyone who builds and maintains the software that they depend on. They've broken the contract by continuing to hobble open web tech.

That has never been the social contract. I hate this outcome as much as the next guy and I'm sure Apple could have continued to support PWAs if they wanted to. And they should have done it. That being said, I'm tired of the argument that OSS maintainers are being owed anything (beyond gratitude). They publish their software under licences they themselves choose. As long as someone follows the license, they are good.…

[deleted]

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#598
post #53

These kind of news make me feel happy that I'm Apple, Microsoft and Google* free. Phone is ungoogled Android.

Ironic that Android was mostly developed by Google.

Exactly why its a bad look for Apple right? Android is open, you don't need to have Google apps to make it work on other hand you can't even install Firefox/Chrome on iOS.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever they manage to eek out in the EU, is the future of what iOS will be in the US and worldwide eventually. If they go with fully fledged PWAs that the other browser engines will enable - there’s little reason to use the Appstore, hence Apple losing their 30% commission. From their perspective it’s not so much throwing a tantrum but clawing and screaming their way into giving up as little revenue as possible.

We also know 70% of revenue comes from games. And there's no way proper game is going run on a PWA. I also invoke Android again... PWAs exist, Google still holds the lions share. Google has freaked out about it too and is being sanctioned as we speak for it, but most customers simply aren't going to look for an alt app store outside of niche uses.

If we’re looking at a game that doesn’t use a lot of hardware resources like Candy Crush or Angry Birds, those could possibly run quite well as a PWA?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#600
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

>Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. The more important context is the legal one, not what laypeople think. Apple is presenting PWAs as viable alternatives to the app store in a legal context: https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Apple%20Pty%20Lim…

No. It is not! The law is for the people, for the „laymen“, not for lawers.
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