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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#481

Post by akie »

xvector wrote: post #387
leifross wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, this tantrum by no means works to lessen the growing idea that control of the platform should be put into the hands of a independent third party. While not European in origin, the platform holds and manages tremendous value for us, to the extent where small changes can cause mayor economic disruption, and Apple has not been managing it fairly. And for a state actor, which exists to serve the common g…

The EU is economically meaningless on the grand scale. They are only 7% of Apple's revenue, and similarly low for other companies. And every day they become a less profitable market to operate in. The EU holds power only as long as the rest of the world is willing to deal with its BS. Trying to "break up Apple" is simply not within the EU's power as Apple is worth more than the EU's whole tech industry combined. Appl…

If US big tech doesn't need the EU, then why do they keep on bending to its will?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#482

Post by rahkiin »

derefr wrote: post #334
wokwokwok wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

> you can see that unless at an OS level you provide additional 'meta-security' features that allow apps that run in other apps to have fine grains access control that is managed by the OS, it's pretty much "security? Well, whatever...". I don't think that's the only solution. A simple alternative is to declare that "apps that run in other apps don't get to do anything at all." I.e. in this case, in response to a EU…

This would run foul against the DMA, unless they make safari PWA also less capable.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#483

Post by Dylan16807 »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #478
Dylan16807 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The charging speed of USB-C cables (C on both ends) is pretty much just the slow ones and the fast ones, and "slow" is 60 watts.

No.

Yes.

Every conforming cable supports 3 amps and 20 volts.

If you think something's incorrect with that, be specific. But the spec is pretty clear.

The exact details of the faster cables are murky because there's old and new versions of that section of the spec, but very few devices use enough power to care about that.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#484

Post by rahkiin »

kristiandupont wrote: post #440
wokwokwok wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

I don't see how this refutes GP's point. Yes, it's a big challenge but when they are allowing other browsers, the challenge is met already. The "install to home screen" feature adds but very minute extra features.

I guess the issue is that PWA is more deeply integrated… so instead of having this integration within the OS using their WKWebView component, they need to make it a user choice which browser component is used. This component then has to be installable through the App Store. This then also means an ‘app’ is hosted by another ‘app’, and to do this properly that host app needs to many permissions

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#485

Post by bryanrasmussen »

Nullabillity wrote: post #406
zappb wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China represents twice as many people as the EU. This is not an enticing argument. Can you at least qualify this with democratic representation?

Which free and democratic election did Xi win?

none, which is what the comment was complaining about.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#486

Post by rahkiin »

Roark66 wrote: post #470
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

>low usage This is hilarious. As a developer, if PWAs work properly I'm much more interested in writing them, test them on ios and market them to ios users. If the feature is uncertain, or outright broken like now of course no sane, businesses sense driven dev will spend the time to build a PWA app specifically for iOS.

I have never used PWAs, so could you elaborate what you mean with ‘work properly’? What happens now that is not ideal?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#487

Post by throwaway49849 »

zshrc wrote: post #396
givemeethekeys wrote: post #2

It's news like this that makes me want to trade my iPhone for the closest Android phone.

Then do it and stop complaining. This isn’t a charity it’s a company. What company doesn’t have their best interest in mind? Don’t even say a FOSS company like Red Hat because that would be bull.

The social contract has been that these big companies benefit from the free work of open source maintainers, and they continue to work together to support open standards. This latest maneuver from Apple, while well within their rights, is a big FU to everyone who builds and maintains the software that they depend on. They've broken the contract by continuing to hobble open web tech.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#488

Post by stevefan1999 »

That's why I almost wouldn't buy a new Apple product anymore, with their draconian Chinese model (Apple as the big parent), and instead I crack Apple's product to assert my freedom (I do use Hackintosh, by the way).

The only exception is an iPad Pro (M1) because there aren't good competitions in the market. Over the time I'm starting to think about replacing it with an Android tablet but I'm still yet to find one with a decent pen and memory.

Alas, to quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". You gave up your liberty to be colonialized by Apple, and now you get neither Liberty nor Safety in the future eventually.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#489

Post by prmoustache »

Pfhortune wrote: post #264
SigmundA wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Android allows alternative rendering engines besides Chrome for PWA? If you install Firefox it uses Gecko but still has native app look feel? I honestly don't know but would be surprised if they did.

> So Android allows alternative rendering engines besides Chrome for PWA? Yes: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web... I tested just now in Firefox with an app from https://appsco.pe and it does indeed work! I can do the same with the Android version of Brave. > If you install Firefox it uses Gecko but still has native app look feel? That depends on your definition. Making an app _feel_ native…

> I tested just now in Firefox with an app from https://appsco.pe and it does indeed work!

I tested just now in firefox with an app from https://appsco.pe and it just...opened a browser tab with the website.

So I understand a PWA is just a website but isn't the whole point to have a dedicated window/card for it?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#490

Post by TheCapeGreek »

dangus wrote: post #342
thimp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn't a tech industry viewpoint? I don't know anyone who knows what the difference between an app and a PWA is. I don't think I've seen anyone outside of the tech industry with a PWA active. In context 99% of the users I meet don't even know what USB-C is.

I think PWAs are an outright failure and a technical solution looking for a problem. I don’t even know where to find one. For one thing, if Apple is complying with the EU’s alternative App Store and browser engine mandate, they’re even less useful than before. Why do I as a user want a PWA when I could have a native app?

>technical solution looking for a problem

In some regards yes. In practical regards they're a threat to app store margins (on all app stores, not just Apple), so there's no incentive to truly support them other than developers being loud about it.

>I don’t even know where to find one.

Because Apple has crippled the ability for you to use them, so developers can't really spend time working on them. Chicken and egg problem.

>if Apple is complying

They're not really, they're twisting and turning as much as possible to look like complying but make the desired outcomes even more difficult to achieve.

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