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Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

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Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#41

Post by mgbmtl »

chickenwrap wrote: post #36

Most new satellite data is focusing on the oil and gas industry. Methane emissions from coal mining is getting much less attention. The reason oil and gas are being prioritised is 1. There is a financial incentive to reduce emissions (less leaks=more money). This doesn't apply to an open-cut coal mine. 2. Regulations are coming in the US which will put a dollar cost on methane leaks. The EU methane regulations for oi…

Seems OK to me? Coal mining has been steadily declining, but oil/gas production keeps increasing (at least in the US/Canada).

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#42

Post by s1artibartfast »

thinkcontext wrote: post #34
marliechiller wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that whilst methane is many times worse than CO2 in terms of its warming effect, it also has a much shorter "half life" than CO2 - in the region of a few years before its no longer having an effect on warming. Not to minimise the fact that we should be avoiding contributing to global warming in any way possible, but comparing it to coal therefore is apples to oranges

You aren't wrong but comparison requires some context. Because of the decay comparisons are made over a time period, the EPA typically uses 100 years. It uses a factor of about 28x, ie methane retains 28x more heat than an equal amount of co2 over a 100 year time period. There's debate over whether 100 years is an appropriate time period. Many say its too conservative given the nature of the heating that we face. Ove…

To build on the context, I is also worth pointing out that with both CO2 and methane, the vast majority of the heating doesn't come from the molecules themselves, but water vapor.

The ghg potential for each is based on the 2nd order system impact and interaction with water vapor.

It isnt nearly as simple as some reactive index of the molecule itself

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#43

Post by thinkcontext »

andy_ppp wrote: post #28

How do methane leaks compare with the flaring we have to do by definition when fracking occurs? As I understand even flaring produces something like 8% methane, probably more in less regulated oil production than the US.

IEA has some info that places flaring emissions within context within the O&G industry. Clicking into the Flaring section is also useful.

https://www.iea.org/energy-system/fossil-fuels

In the US industry has said that around 1% of gas coming out of the flare stack does not combust. Recent research has shown this is about 5x too low which makes a big difference in the ghg impact.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#44

Post by danbruc »

justrealist wrote: post #38
danbruc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia was no adversary when Nord Stream was build and given the repeated disputes between Russia and Ukraine with regard to gas [1] it seems completely reasonable that they wanted to bypass them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis...

Nord Stream entered service in 2011, 3 years after Russia invaded Georgia. Everyone except Merkel knew that Russia would eventually be a problem for eastern europe.

But the project started in 1997 and began construction in 2005. And Merkel was among those that advocated for a different politics towards Russia, one that might have avoided the situation of today.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#45

Post by [deleted] »

PedroBatista wrote: post #40
danbruc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia was no adversary when Nord Stream was build and given the repeated disputes between Russia and Ukraine with regard to gas [1] it seems completely reasonable that they wanted to bypass them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis...

And that was the quintessential mistake of the West. Thinking the Cold War ended because the USSR was dissolved. Their minds went out of the game while Russia was still on that game, only paused it temporarily because the 90s were brutal for them. On the part of Germany, IMO it was/is a bundle of many things like Germany is very industry heavy and having cheap gas is a much needed advantage, to the point all those br…

[deleted]

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#46

Post by thinkcontext »

mgbmtl wrote: post #41
chickenwrap wrote: post #36

Most new satellite data is focusing on the oil and gas industry. Methane emissions from coal mining is getting much less attention. The reason oil and gas are being prioritised is 1. There is a financial incentive to reduce emissions (less leaks=more money). This doesn't apply to an open-cut coal mine. 2. Regulations are coming in the US which will put a dollar cost on methane leaks. The EU methane regulations for oi…

Seems OK to me? Coal mining has been steadily declining, but oil/gas production keeps increasing (at least in the US/Canada).

Old coal mines can emit methane for a long time if not remediated. Many have been long abandoned or if there is a currently active owner they aren't able to cover the cost because they aren't viable. It will fall to government to do anything about it.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#47

Post by justrealist »

danbruc wrote: post #44
justrealist wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nord Stream entered service in 2011, 3 years after Russia invaded Georgia. Everyone except Merkel knew that Russia would eventually be a problem for eastern europe.

But the project started in 1997 and began construction in 2005. And Merkel was among those that advocated for a different politics towards Russia, one that might have avoided the situation of today.

> one that might have avoided the situation of today

????

Merkel had her way 16 years, her politics are exactly what got us here. This is a ridiculous statement.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#48

Post by SECProto »

486sx33 wrote: post #13

Its not only methane, we need to be tracking things like CFC 11 & 12 leaks ON A CONSTANT BASIS . There is still consistent production in china of this and many other banned gases. https://www.bristol.ac.uk/research/impact/stories/greenhouse... https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/603350 Reporting their findings again in Nature (2019), the group showed that CFC-11 emissions in eastern mainland China were around 7,000…

While true that they are concerns, the first article you linked notes that those started to be clamped down on 6 years ago - would be good to have an update.

And also, the scale of methane leaks compared with cfc11/12 means that even though they have ~3-4x the GWP of methane, the impacts of poorly tracked methane leaks are astronomically higher.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#49

Post by jcranmer »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #19
Alifatisk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it the US?

No, current consensus is that it was likely the Ukrainians. They are the obvious suspects, but they were initially ruled out because it was thought they didn't have the capabilities.

When the attack happened, I first reckoned [1] the suspects as US [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32996564

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#50

Post by danbruc »

justrealist wrote: post #47
danbruc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the project started in 1997 and began construction in 2005. And Merkel was among those that advocated for a different politics towards Russia, one that might have avoided the situation of today.

> one that might have avoided the situation of today ???? Merkel had her way 16 years, her politics are exactly what got us here. This is a ridiculous statement.

Germany was among those countries that were against NATO memberships for Georgia and Ukraine in 2008.
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