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Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

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Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#31

Put natural gas leaks on there while you're at it. Maybe that would absorb enough attention to fix the 40 year leak. https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/09/16/advocates-hold-... https://www.heet.org/gas-leaks-map

Natural gas is (mostly) methane, so a satellite looking for methane would include these.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#32

The rise of independent imaging of methane leaks through satellites and overflights has been revelatory. They've shown the numbers industry was reporting and EPA has been using in its GHG estimates have been comically low. The more they look the more they keep finding. Some areas of the Permian in NM are so bad at 9% leakage rate that their GHG impact is worse than coal . Industry of course is shocked (shocked!) and…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that whilst methane is many times worse than CO2 in terms of its warming effect, it also has a much shorter "half life" than CO2 - in the region of a few years before its no longer having an effect on warming. Not to minimise the fact that we should be avoiding contributing to global warming in any way possible, but comparing it to coal therefore is apples to oranges

Methane in the atmosphere breaks down to CO2 and water, so even if the methane is gone, it leaves a lasting heating effect in its wake.

Edit: And its over 80 times (!) more warming than CO2 over a 20 year period.

https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-methane-is-sho...

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#33

The rise of independent imaging of methane leaks through satellites and overflights has been revelatory. They've shown the numbers industry was reporting and EPA has been using in its GHG estimates have been comically low. The more they look the more they keep finding. Some areas of the Permian in NM are so bad at 9% leakage rate that their GHG impact is worse than coal . Industry of course is shocked (shocked!) and…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that whilst methane is many times worse than CO2 in terms of its warming effect, it also has a much shorter "half life" than CO2 - in the region of a few years before its no longer having an effect on warming. Not to minimise the fact that we should be avoiding contributing to global warming in any way possible, but comparing it to coal therefore is apples to oranges

Where is this persistent falsehood coming from? It's getting posted on every recent story about climate change.

Presumably someone with connections to big methane producers is spreading it?

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#34

The rise of independent imaging of methane leaks through satellites and overflights has been revelatory. They've shown the numbers industry was reporting and EPA has been using in its GHG estimates have been comically low. The more they look the more they keep finding. Some areas of the Permian in NM are so bad at 9% leakage rate that their GHG impact is worse than coal . Industry of course is shocked (shocked!) and…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case that whilst methane is many times worse than CO2 in terms of its warming effect, it also has a much shorter "half life" than CO2 - in the region of a few years before its no longer having an effect on warming. Not to minimise the fact that we should be avoiding contributing to global warming in any way possible, but comparing it to coal therefore is apples to oranges

You aren't wrong but comparison requires some context. Because of the decay comparisons are made over a time period, the EPA typically uses 100 years. It uses a factor of about 28x, ie methane retains 28x more heat than an equal amount of co2 over a 100 year time period.

There's debate over whether 100 years is an appropriate time period. Many say its too conservative given the nature of the heating that we face. Over a 20 year time frame the ghg factor is 84x. This has implications particularly when people think about feedback effects, ie methane increases heat which causes permafrost to melt and release more methane which increases heat, etc. Another feedback effect making the picture more complicated is that the decay rate of methane in the atmosphere decreases as the concentration increases.

However you cut it, methane in the atmosphere is increasing more rapidly than co2 despite its decay. Reducing it gives a lot of bang for the buck given that in industry most of the emissions come from a relatively few points in the infrastructure. There are of course other sources which are very challenging to reduce like agriculture.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#35
post #4
post #2

Meanwhile, memory holed: >The Nord Stream breach released between 56,000 and 155,000 tonnes of methane into the atmosphere, making it among the largest methane emissions ever recorded from a single point https://www.newscientist.com/article/2342081-nord-stream-lea... https://archive.ph/Yb20f

Building a gas pipeline with an adversary to disadvantage your eastern neighbors was likely a bad move.

Russia was no adversary when Nord Stream was build and given the repeated disputes between Russia and Ukraine with regard to gas [1] it seems completely reasonable that they wanted to bypass them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis...

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#36
Most new satellite data is focusing on the oil and gas industry. Methane emissions from coal mining is getting much less attention. The reason oil and gas are being prioritised is 1. There is a financial incentive to reduce emissions (less leaks=more money). This doesn't apply to an open-cut coal mine. 2. Regulations are coming in the US which will put a dollar cost on methane leaks. The EU methane regulations for oil and gas are also coming in. But the biggest motivator is the expectation from investors. They want companies to have methane reduction targets and transparent reporting. They will give companies a 'premium valuation' - a reward for being good corporate citizens if they join frameworks like the OGMP 2.0. Sadly, there is little or no regulation for coal mine methane.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#38
post #35
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a gas pipeline with an adversary to disadvantage your eastern neighbors was likely a bad move.

Russia was no adversary when Nord Stream was build and given the repeated disputes between Russia and Ukraine with regard to gas [1] it seems completely reasonable that they wanted to bypass them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis...

Nord Stream entered service in 2011, 3 years after Russia invaded Georgia. Everyone except Merkel knew that Russia would eventually be a problem for eastern europe.

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#39
post #13

Its not only methane, we need to be tracking things like CFC 11 & 12 leaks ON A CONSTANT BASIS . There is still consistent production in china of this and many other banned gases. https://www.bristol.ac.uk/research/impact/stories/greenhouse... https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/603350 Reporting their findings again in Nature (2019), the group showed that CFC-11 emissions in eastern mainland China were around 7,000…

Agree, but let's not pass over that this is a great first step!

Re: Google is making a map of methane leaks for the whole world to see

#40
post #35
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a gas pipeline with an adversary to disadvantage your eastern neighbors was likely a bad move.

Russia was no adversary when Nord Stream was build and given the repeated disputes between Russia and Ukraine with regard to gas [1] it seems completely reasonable that they wanted to bypass them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis...

And that was the quintessential mistake of the West. Thinking the Cold War ended because the USSR was dissolved. Their minds went out of the game while Russia was still on that game, only paused it temporarily because the 90s were brutal for them.

On the part of Germany, IMO it was/is a bundle of many things like Germany is very industry heavy and having cheap gas is a much needed advantage, to the point all those bright stoic German quality minds made their own country very dependent on Russia.

Also their historic and somewhat fascination with Russia, thinking they can "fix" them and be European brothers.

Also psyops, treason and corruption at the highest levels. Best known cases: Gerhard Schröder and Angela Merkel's early life and questionable policies.

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