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The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

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Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#91
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm somewhat skeptical that the Dutch social safety net is why Dutch parents let their kids "ride their bikes in the rain unsupervised" It's blindingly obvious for anybody who has experienced both sides. Dutch parents let their children outside because the roads are safe for children to bike and walk. bikelanes, bumpouts, bollards, slow cars in town, ... American roads are a thunderdome by comparison. Most american…

> American roads are a thunderdome by comparison. Teach your kids to not challenge Master Blaster to to-the-death combat in Thunderdome if it really worries you. My concern has never, ever been that they'll get run over. Not by age 7 or 8, when I would consider letting them wander unsupervised. There are many traffic fatalities in the US each year, but those occur not to people crossing suburban streets (or rural roa…

Multiple things can be true at once. The CPS busybody thing is real, abduction anxiety is real too. Those are unfortunate too.

They are not key determinants. There are places in america you will see kids outside doing things. New urbanist developments, core of college towns, neighborhoods in big cities, ... And this is because stuff worth doing for kids is safely accessible without car there.

The big intellectual tragedy of the 2nd half of the 20th century is that we have become blind to the fact that much of our behavior, aspirations, dispositions are technologically determined, and not the other way around.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#92
post #81
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 60-70% taxes The highest Dutch tax bracket is 50%, but that only applies to income over 75K EUR. Also, VAT doesn't apply to rent, and it's reduced for food. Housing and food are most household's largest expenses. So the 21% sales tax can be deceptive. Taxation as a % of the Dutch GDP is 38%. That is to say, taxes take 38% of all the wealth produced in the Netherlands. For some comparison purposes, the number in the…

The US has one of the most progressive tax rates of any nation. Not only do we not have a VAT, but also the top 10% pay over 70% of all income taxes. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the American government seems especially inefficient at spending money. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-fe...

Income taxation is not a good proxy for all taxation. If you look at the effective taxation of some of the richest individuals in America, you'll see they pay far less than income tax percentages would lead you to believe [1].

[1]: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#93
post #15
post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. It may depends on where in the US you're talking about, but in my area none of this is actually true. Although lots of people believe it is.

I live a couple blocks from a middle school and a high school. The streets and sidewalks are full of kids walking or biking, alone or in groups, at school start/end times. There are crossing guards at the intersections they use.

This isn't a poor neighborhood but it's not terribly wealthy, either.

Frankly, if you visit some other country for a couple weeks, you don't get any more than the most superficial idea of what life is like there.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a blog post a while back that had the idea that the reason so many American's remember their college years so fondly is because for many of them it was the only time in their lives where they lived somewhere walkable.

It also a time living in an unnatural community not subject all the issues that exist in the outside world. Campuses are not functionally independent entities. They are artificial environments funded from the outside to fulfill a specific purpose. Spend time on a military base. They are also great places in which to live. Easy commutes, local services, great security, very low unemployment and most are very walkable.…

Have you never been to a city?

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#95
post #21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. It may depends on where in the US you're talking about, but in my area none of this is actually true. Although lots of people believe it is.

Sounds nice. I've personally spoken on the phone with a police officer who told me he'd involve CPS if he saw my daughter walking (two blocks!) to school again.

One of the nice things about Texas is that it has a law against that. Tell your reps to get something similar passed. https://letgrow.org/texas-becomes-third-state-to-enshrine-re...

I'm reminded of how Georgia will pay foster parents of homeless kids more than it'd cost to simply put a roof over those kids' families heads. https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-housing-assistanc...

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#96
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather my kids be happy throughout life than "successful", however that is defined (wealth? prestige?). Of course, some success is necessary for happiness, but happiness should be the primary indicator.

?? I mean, isn't "happiness throughout life", in and of itself, success? Maybe not the way the suits measure it, but still.

It's not the way American culture generally defines it, either. Wealth and influence are the primary metrics.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#97

Skeptic that I am I do wonder if this is something normal in all of the Netherlands or specific to, like, these hyper urbanized walkable places in (clearly) affluent neighborhoods of Amsterdam. While the social safety net is a factor I'd honestly like to know if what's true of her sister's children is also true of some kid living in a country village or wherever.

It's really not just Amsterdam. Very obvious if you check out Rotterdam, Hague, Eindhoven, Utrecht and etc. Obviously richer sides will have better and more "things", but biking and taking trains is very convenient.

The country is much more urbanized, and the distances are just not that long. Even if you take two big cities - Rotterdam and Amsterdam, it takes like 4 hours to bike. So if you live just a bit in the outskirts, you can still bike to a walkable place, or bike to the train station and go from there.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#98

If someone could help me, I recall a study of all the decisions (on the order of 100-1000s) that a parent makes in the first year of a child's life. The conclusion of the study was something along the lines of most decisions have little to no effect. IF there was a single decision that had the largest effect, it was where home was. Of course, there is coupling between where you live and other decisions, making the co…

I think you're missing a detail. The studies I've read generally found that it doesn't really matter which option you choose from a list of active/intensive/interested options, they'll all produce good effects. But neglect, indifference, and lack of involvement are not on that list. Neglecting your child vs being involved and supportive certainly has an incredibly large effect. In fact, quantity of parental involveme…

I completely agree that neglect, indifference and lack of involvement can only result in negative outcomes for a child (e.g., sense of insecurity, lower feelings of self-worth, delayed development in certain areas due to lack of stimulation). I’m just curious what definition of “success” you are using in your final sentence. Not being snarky here - I’m honestly interested. There can be no question that having financial stability as an adult can be considered a form of success in that it provides security, shelter, access to a healthy lifestyle. Being raised by parents who have significant monetary wealth likely increases the chances that the child will have similar opportunities for financial gain as they become independent. I just wonder if parental involvement is at least equally important by teaching proper social interaction skills that can lead to favorable relationships later in life (i.e., the “it’s not what you know but who you know” effect).

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#100
post #26

I'm somewhat skeptical that the Dutch social safety net is why Dutch parents let their kids "ride their bikes in the rain unsupervised". Does anyone believe that Americans would be more like Dutch parents with a social safety net? What causal chain is necessary for that result, when American parents tend to be be like that due to anxiety about monstrous crimes? Do we really believe that the crimes happen enough that…

> I'm somewhat skeptical that the Dutch social safety net is why Dutch parents let their kids "ride their bikes in the rain unsupervised" It's blindingly obvious for anybody who has experienced both sides. Dutch parents let their children outside because the roads are safe for children to bike and walk. bikelanes, bumpouts, bollards, slow cars in town, ... American roads are a thunderdome by comparison. Most american…

> Most americans just cannot see it, fish in a bowl, surrounded by water.

Alternatively, a lot of us actually live in places where it's no big deal. My kids spend an inordinate amount of time biking and walking out on the street, shooting hoops, etc.

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