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The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

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Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#31

Post by elevatedastalt »

jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

In the asymptotic case, European countries levy 100% tax, and take over all economic and social activity, including child-rearing, with the role parents being only a field in the database.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#32

Post by bilbo0s »

organsnyder wrote: post #27
sebastianconcpt wrote: post #3

And the most successful ones?

I'd rather my kids be happy throughout life than "successful", however that is defined (wealth? prestige?). Of course, some success is necessary for happiness, but happiness should be the primary indicator.

??

I mean, isn't "happiness throughout life", in and of itself, success?

Maybe not the way the suits measure it, but still.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#33

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

nicoco wrote: post #14
sebastianconcpt wrote: post #3

And the most successful ones?

Do you mean money-wise? What's the point if you're not happy? The only thing I want for my kids besides them being happy, is that their happiness does not depend on the misery of other human beings. Funnily enough, "success" is often used as a synonym for "being a sociopath born with a silver spoon who does not give a damn about not making others miserable".

I've never much wanted my kids to be happy. I'd shoot them up with heroin if that's all I cared about. Instead, I want them to make and build things, to repair and improve already-made things. To be productive in a plainly measurable way. And if that means their lives are filled with doubts or misgivings, if they aren't ever quite satisfied, if there's never any time to indulge in ennui and existential navel-gazing... so what? I think the word "happy" as used in the present day is at best problematic, but maybe even profoundly pathological.

People who chase happiness seem to do so poorly at seizing it. I can't really imagine the shitshow that would result from an entire country pursuing it as some matter of policy, but if the results are what we see from one fraction of the country whining that we should pursue it to a far higher degree, then god help us all.

>unnily enough, "success" is often used as a synonym for "being a sociopath born with a silver spoon who does not give a damn about not making others miserable".

Perhaps. But I'm still working on getting the silver spoons ready for my grandchildren, and when my kids are old enough they'll work towards that goal too.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#34

Post by ars »

MBlume wrote: post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

People keep saying this, and it's just not true. Sure, there are stories in the press, but the actual lived reality of kids in the US is not that.

You can easily tell I'm right simply because it's in the News: The News doesn't cover the normal situation, they cover the unusual. If it's in the news, it's something that rarely happens.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#36

Post by bigfudge »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #31
jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

In the asymptotic case, European countries levy 100% tax, and take over all economic and social activity, including child-rearing, with the role parents being only a field in the database.

I can’t tell if this is satire or a genuine point being made. It’s a long way from reality if anyone was in any doubt!

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#37

Post by retrac »

jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

> 60-70% taxes

The highest Dutch tax bracket is 50%, but that only applies to income over 75K EUR. Also, VAT doesn't apply to rent, and it's reduced for food. Housing and food are most household's largest expenses. So the 21% sales tax can be deceptive.

Taxation as a % of the Dutch GDP is 38%. That is to say, taxes take 38% of all the wealth produced in the Netherlands.

For some comparison purposes, the number in the USA is 27%, Japan 31%, Canada 33%, Germany 37%, Finland 42%.

The US does not have uniform tax rates. Taxation as a % of GDP in some of the higher-taxed US states comes in around 35% - quite close to the Dutch number.

It would appear that the typical middle class Dutch family probably pays about 30 - 50% of their income to taxation. The very wealthy might be coming up on 60% or so.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#38

Post by uncletaco »

Skeptic that I am I do wonder if this is something normal in all of the Netherlands or specific to, like, these hyper urbanized walkable places in (clearly) affluent neighborhoods of Amsterdam. While the social safety net is a factor I'd honestly like to know if what's true of her sister's children is also true of some kid living in a country village or wherever.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#39

Post by bigfudge »

LtWorf wrote: post #30
jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

NL has comparatively low taxes for what they get. Their entire economy is based on scamming the other EU countries out of their company taxes, by letting companies open there, and then do transfer pricing. edit: downvoting me won't change how NL is ran.

Ireland has a similar approach. It’s one of the few reasons why leaving the EU could have made sense.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#40

Post by redox99 »

dopamean wrote: post #11
MBlume wrote: post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

I read a blog post a while back that had the idea that the reason so many American's remember their college years so fondly is because for many of them it was the only time in their lives where they lived somewhere walkable.

I'm pretty sure almost everywhere in the world people remember their college years fondly.
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