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The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

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Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#21

Post by MBlume »

JohnFen wrote: post #15
MBlume wrote: post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. It may depends on where in the US you're talking about, but in my area none of this is actually true. Although lots of people believe it is.

Sounds nice. I've personally spoken on the phone with a police officer who told me he'd involve CPS if he saw my daughter walking (two blocks!) to school again.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#22

Post by zachkatz »

MBlume wrote: post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

For more in-depth reading on Dutch street design, this blog is fascinating:

https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/search/label/what%20wo...

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#23

Post by richforrester »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #3

And the most successful ones?

What I love about these types of questions is that they come completely out of the blue

Like someone will rock up and ask for some stat that's completely irrelevant to the story, just "to make a point", without looking it up first themselves, just to imply something

And then later backtrack with "I WAS JUST ASKING" or something

Nah, go look it up yourself. Define successful for yourself, look up the statistic

Look for things like "happiest countries in the world", "GDP per capita", "life expectancy" or even "Big Mac index". Heck, make up your own index from a mix of them

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#24

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

JohnFen wrote: post #15
MBlume wrote: post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. It may depends on where in the US you're talking about, but in my area none of this is actually true. Although lots of people believe it is.

Overzealous neighbors in the US will have someone's house sold out from under them when the grass is too high and they don't pay the fines to the HOA for mowing it. The idea that they'll be ok with children wandering around unsupervised is preposterous on its face. The cops might not care either way, but only until the busybodies start nagging. Especially the sort of busybodies that live in the places where any sane parent might consider letting their kids wander. Kids would probably go unmolested by aging Karens in the bad parts of Baltimore or Gary IN, but then they have other problems.

I agree with you that the risk of being killed by a car is somewhat low though.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#26

Post by trgn »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #20

I'm somewhat skeptical that the Dutch social safety net is why Dutch parents let their kids "ride their bikes in the rain unsupervised". Does anyone believe that Americans would be more like Dutch parents with a social safety net? What causal chain is necessary for that result, when American parents tend to be be like that due to anxiety about monstrous crimes? Do we really believe that the crimes happen enough that…

> I'm somewhat skeptical that the Dutch social safety net is why Dutch parents let their kids "ride their bikes in the rain unsupervised"

It's blindingly obvious for anybody who has experienced both sides. Dutch parents let their children outside because the roads are safe for children to bike and walk. bikelanes, bumpouts, bollards, slow cars in town, ...

American roads are a thunderdome by comparison.

Most americans just cannot see it, fish in a bowl, surrounded by water.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#27

Post by organsnyder »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #3

And the most successful ones?

I'd rather my kids be happy throughout life than "successful", however that is defined (wealth? prestige?). Of course, some success is necessary for happiness, but happiness should be the primary indicator.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#28

Post by bilbo0s »

Symbiote wrote: post #5
sebastianconcpt wrote: post #3

And the most successful ones?

By what measure of success?

I think that guy probably means "money"?

Whichever kid has the most when they die wins.

But yeah, there are way more dimensions along which to measure success. Almost every one is more important, in my view, than how much money you have when you die.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#29

Post by lotsofpulp »

jeffbee wrote: post #17
jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

You must have assumed some level of income. How much?

The comparison is very difficult. Just incorporating health insurance premiums (even the portion that is employer paid) paid from pretax income plus some proportion of deductible/out of pocket maximum involves assumptions that change the calculations.

Not to mention the myriad other ways to defer or exempt future income from taxes such as 401k/IRA/roth/529/HSA/etc.

And then on top of that, you have 50 different states with myriad ways of taxing income, different types of income, consumption, and estates, and within those 50 states, there are numerous counties and cities with their own ways of taxing the same.

For example, my effective individual tax rate at similar W2 incomes has varied from 30% to 17% (including health insurance premiums) just by changing the jurisdiction I live in. And that’s calculated using various assumptions one may or may not agree with.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#30

Post by LtWorf »

jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

NL has comparatively low taxes for what they get.

Their entire economy is based on scamming the other EU countries out of their company taxes, by letting companies open there, and then do transfer pricing.

edit: downvoting me won't change how NL is ran.

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