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Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

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Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#191

Post by [deleted] »

pas wrote: post #22
dave_sullivan wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm personally not a fan of NVIDIA's drivers or the reliability of their hardware. As compared to AMD or Intel? I wish there was real competition to Nvidia but there isn't. I'm not a fan of their defacto monopoly but they do have the best product on the market and their competition has been asleep for 10 years. AMD and Intel barely knew what deep learning was 10 years ago (and certainly did not appreciate the oppor…

> Nvidia was already investing heavily that sounds very interesting, can you link/share/describe some details on it? how much did they invest? how? into CUDA? what else?

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#192

Post by ptero »

FredPret wrote: post #177
sjwhevvvvvsj wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If AMDs version of “asleep at the wheel” is them eating Intels lunch for the last few years, I’d hate to see them awake. Intel is weak, and it’s much smarter to put resources into squeezing Intel while they are on the ropes than shift too much focus to ML.

I’m talking GPUs, not CPUs.

And he is saying AMD focusing on non-GPU markets and going from being a laughable underdog to a powerhouse hardly qualifies as "being asleep at the wheel".

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#193

Post by SmokeyHamster »

FredPret wrote: post #23
behnamoh wrote: post #16

Somehow I wish it weren't true because I hate monopolies in any markets. Nvidia has been enjoying their absurd premium on consumer and production GPUs and intentionally removed the NVLink capability in the GeForce 4090 series (3090 had them) to avoid cannibalizing their A100 and H100 business. With NVLink, people could chain multiple GPUs and increase the overall VRAM without much reduction in bandwidth. But without…

I understand the sentiment. But the only reason you're mad at Nvidia is because they made something desirable (a GPU that does NN training) but didn't do it in the way you prefer (NVLink, Linux compatibility etc). It's not their fault AMD and others have been asleep at the wheel and handed them the whole market for free. Any company with a monopoly on the hot new thing would try to capitalize on it. When the other GP…

Is that even logistically possible for rivals at this point?

You think AMD doesn't want to carve out a chunk of that pie?

What Nvidia is doing is hard and the engineers with the skill to design those chips are few far between. I'm sure Nvidia's already hired most of the best in the business.

Anyone who wants to unseat Nvidia will need very talented people, who aren't cheap, and that means massive investment capital which largely doesn't exist.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#194

Post by qwertox »

FredPret wrote: post #23
behnamoh wrote: post #16

Somehow I wish it weren't true because I hate monopolies in any markets. Nvidia has been enjoying their absurd premium on consumer and production GPUs and intentionally removed the NVLink capability in the GeForce 4090 series (3090 had them) to avoid cannibalizing their A100 and H100 business. With NVLink, people could chain multiple GPUs and increase the overall VRAM without much reduction in bandwidth. But without…

I understand the sentiment. But the only reason you're mad at Nvidia is because they made something desirable (a GPU that does NN training) but didn't do it in the way you prefer (NVLink, Linux compatibility etc). It's not their fault AMD and others have been asleep at the wheel and handed them the whole market for free. Any company with a monopoly on the hot new thing would try to capitalize on it. When the other GP…

> have been asleep

I still don't see the required effort put into place by Intel together with AMD in order to create an attractive alternative to CUDA.

Right now they're only only getting looks because their devices are cheaper for the hardware you get and for big projects because they're available, so you're required to have in-house experts who know how these platforms work in order to get stuff done that you know would definitely work on Nvidia.

The games Nvidia is playing with the consumer market is really annoying, but we have to thank Intel and AMD that Nvidia is in a position to do this. Microsoft is probably also at fault.

We're at a point where Apple only has to say "Oh, one more thing, you can now put Nvidia GPUs in your Mac Pro" for Intel and AMD to notice in what position they've put themselves into.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#195

Post by dehrmann »

wbsun wrote: post #70
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow I wish it weren't true because I hate monopolies in any markets. If you peel the layers back... isn't the real monopoly ASML?

I am always wondering why ASML hasn’t got any antitrust lawsuits for their monopoly.

I'm not sure if this is the motivation, but any sort of action against ASML would give Chinese fabs time to catch up.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#196

Post by FredPret »

ptero wrote: post #192
FredPret wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m talking GPUs, not CPUs.

And he is saying AMD focusing on non-GPU markets and going from being a laughable underdog to a powerhouse hardly qualifies as "being asleep at the wheel".

Alright, fair point, but that is also why they missed out on the AI boom.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#197

Post by latchkey »

throwup238 wrote: post #142
latchkey wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure, Oracle, Meta, Tesla, Hot Aisle... all buying up MI300x. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/06/meta-and-microsoft-to-buy-am... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-scores-two-big-wins-or... https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...

“Meta and Microsoft say…” “Oracle is set to use…” “Elon Musk implies…” Not one of them have actually bought anything. AMD is just muddying the waters by grouping HPC sales with AI. It’s nonsense. Edit: I see you’ve got a startup on MI300x hardware. Now it makes sense, I guess - you need to believe. Good luck!

> I guess - you need to believe.

Or maybe I know things you don't. =)

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#198

Post by up2isomorphism »

behnamoh wrote: post #16

Somehow I wish it weren't true because I hate monopolies in any markets. Nvidia has been enjoying their absurd premium on consumer and production GPUs and intentionally removed the NVLink capability in the GeForce 4090 series (3090 had them) to avoid cannibalizing their A100 and H100 business. With NVLink, people could chain multiple GPUs and increase the overall VRAM without much reduction in bandwidth. But without…

But all Linux’s arch enemies are becoming more and more lucrative: Microsoft, apple, Nvidia. Actually less evil one s like Sun died. In fact these companies are so dominating now largely thanks to Linux and open source software.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#199

Post by latchkey »

mlyle wrote: post #171
throwup238 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Meta and Microsoft say…” “Oracle is set to use…” “Elon Musk implies…” Not one of them have actually bought anything. AMD is just muddying the waters by grouping HPC sales with AI. It’s nonsense. Edit: I see you’ve got a startup on MI300x hardware. Now it makes sense, I guess - you need to believe. Good luck!

> Not one of them have actually bought anything. AMD isn't shipping in large volume yet, but MI300x instances can be spun up in preview on Azure today with availability ramping up. Microsoft has absolutely bought a lot of MI300x.

Video proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmJF2U6aqQ8

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#200

Post by dehrmann »

rgmerk wrote: post #65
fnordpiglet wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I would bet an ads/spyware company with admittedly deep deep pockets would beat a specialized hyper focused company at its core business, especially as they have deeper pockets now with 30 years of experience in the sub sector. If Nvidia were wandering in the desert like Cisco I could believe it. But Nvidia isn’t, and I don’t believe Google, Amazon, or others will beat Nvidia at their own game. (Given my…

Have you worked at a large (say 500+ employee) company that you would say isn't "deeply f'ed"? I once read a fascinating corporate history of Xerox, and that company became deeply, deeply f'ed up in ways that are of their time but do have strong parallels to the issues I understand that FAANG, particularly Google, have.

> Have you worked at a large (say 500+ employee) company that you would say isn't "deeply f'ed"?

You get a weird insider bias where all you see are bug reports and problems, so you get the impression the product is shit, even if 99% of customers love it.

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