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Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

centerforbuilding.org

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Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#121

Post by its_ethan »

wolverine876 wrote: post #89
tempsy wrote: post #44

America is mostly suburban by choice. Most people do not want to live in an apartment or condo long term if they plan on raising or have a family if they live basically anywhere that isn’t NYC. I find the YIMBY assumption that everyone wishes every city and town was more NYC to just be untrue. People just want detached houses to be cheaper. Most aren’t dreaming about affording a 3 or 4 bed apartment.

There are other dense cities besides NY, and they have the highest rents. You are welcome to your own preferences, but why is it important to insist that others can't have different ones? What is it to you if people like cities?

> What is it to you...?

If the people who live in cities have some fantasy about how they think people should live, and they push for legislation to be passed to "fix" the issues they see in the city, then laws/rules can end up being applied at a state level. That would then impact the people who opted to not live in a city - where the issues are potentially stemming from in the first place..

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#122

Post by pwb25 »

yonran wrote: post #106
pwb25 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is quite ironic, all those "new tech" people hate new tech in their own areas

> all those "new tech" people hate new tech in their own areas Unfortunately, the recent generation of tech workers have not been represented in local politics. As far as I know, none of the supervisors or mayors in recent memory in San Francisco have worked in technology; they typically come from nonprofits, unions, or just landed gentry. It is not young tech workers who refuse to rezone and amend the building code…

sure, but it's not like their use their money and influence to protest either. where are tim cook or mark zuckerberg saying we need 50 floor houses like in hong kong and singapore in silicon valley?

but at the same time, they spend billions on metaverse stuff no one wants

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#123

Post by DANmode »

pwb25 wrote: post #118
basil-rash wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those platforms build anything. Just lease out stuff people already constructed the infrastructure for. That’s what makes them scale, but it tienta translate to anything where you need massive per-transaction capital.

correct, i mean as in thinking new and disrupt the market. I stil don't get what you try to "gotcha" me with?

AirBnb takes homes out of the housing market for people who want to buy a home to live in it, not turn it into a motel.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#124

Post by tempsy »

foofie wrote: post #94
tempsy wrote: post #44

America is mostly suburban by choice. Most people do not want to live in an apartment or condo long term if they plan on raising or have a family if they live basically anywhere that isn’t NYC. I find the YIMBY assumption that everyone wishes every city and town was more NYC to just be untrue. People just want detached houses to be cheaper. Most aren’t dreaming about affording a 3 or 4 bed apartment.

> People just want detached houses to be cheaper. Most aren’t dreaming about affording a 3 or 4 bed apartment. I'm skeptical of your claim. From what I read in social networks, newer generations of Americans don't even believe they will ever afford an apartment, let alone a detached house. I seriously doubt that there's a generation of choosing beggars who only accept living in a type of home they can't possibly even…

I don’t know what you mean by this at all. I don’t think there’s any connection between what someone wants and what someone can afford.

And the point is a 4 bedroom condo or apartment in an expensive urban city is going to be significantly more expensive than a house in some cheaper suburb. Lots of people do choose to move out of cities into suburbs for this reason. That isn’t a new thing.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#125

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

mperham wrote: post #108
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #8

I'm not an expert on building codes but a large difference in North America is there is much more space in general when building new so I don't quite think the argument is valid. Americans simply want a lot more space. If a developer built smaller sized 3 or 4 bedroom apartments they would have trouble selling to the price point they want.

> Americans simply want a lot more space. I'm American and I don't. Stop stereotyping.

Its a generalization based on facts about median size. For single family homes in the 1960's it was 1500sqft and in the 2000's its around 2100-2200sqft https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/programs-surveys/a...

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#126

Post by pwb25 »

DANmode wrote: post #123
pwb25 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correct, i mean as in thinking new and disrupt the market. I stil don't get what you try to "gotcha" me with?

AirBnb takes homes out of the housing market for people who want to buy a home to live in it , not turn it into a motel.

yes, that's a big problem. but also where is the airbnb founder, that was literally founded in SV area, talking about technology focused cities?

hypocritical mindset

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#127

Post by bluGill »

spiderxxxx wrote: post #38
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #8

I'm not an expert on building codes but a large difference in North America is there is much more space in general when building new so I don't quite think the argument is valid. Americans simply want a lot more space. If a developer built smaller sized 3 or 4 bedroom apartments they would have trouble selling to the price point they want.

If you look at the 'studio' size comparison, the "American" one has a closet that the others don't have, actually two closets, and some sort of sitting/dining designated area that the others also don't have. Their whole reasoning is that the wall would be <10ft meaning it would be "quite dark". Electric lights exist. This is nonsense.

Geometry means you have to be that wide. Just a double bed with space to move around it takes up that much space. Likewise you don't want the bathroom to be the hall (Sorry you can't get out of the apartment until I'm done on the toilet).

Yes dark is not a good argument against this, but it still isn't practical to have apartments that small - it has been done, but all the cases I know of it was out of spite. (someone ended up with a small lot and didn't want to sell)

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#128

Post by idixbebr »

sandworm101 wrote: post #63
sspiff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just everything in Europe is tiny. T i n y. And frankly, it's not that much cheaper over here either. I would argue the other way, as a European, I've been to multiple places Asia and the Middle East and everything is either the same size or smaller than in Europe. I haven't been to Africa or the Americas, but I'd say from my perspective, that things in the US are just extra large.

There are many reasons behind this. It isn't just a fashion for bigger things. I chalk much of it up to differences in work culture. My European friends often talk about pickup up food on the way home from work, dropping in at a store to buy ingredients for dinner. I don't have time to shop like that. My food run is once a week. That means more food in a bigger fridge. They also go out to eat far more than we in Nort…

plenty of people in america get take out, sounds like you’re just a workaholic

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#129

Post by bouncing »

nottorp wrote: post #11
bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

> the kitchen has a refrigerator smaller than the one my American best friend uses for beer It's possible that you can walk 5 min to get more beer while he has to drive 30 minutes?

Kind of.

We live near a Lidl (similar to Aldi) and it's fine for a quick trip for the staples.

But if we're cooking something like what you'd find in the New York Times or Delish or whatever, we're driving to a big old supermarket just like in the States. We find ourselves still following the American model of driving to fill the car with groceries once a week because we like a lot of variety.

If you're content with the national cuisine of Portugal, you could totally always walk to buy groceries though. They're fond of fish and a specific kind of grilled chicken. And in fairness, their chicken is really quite good.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#130

Post by bouncing »

sspiff wrote: post #23
bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

>Just everything in Europe is tiny. T i n y. And frankly, it's not that much cheaper over here either. I would argue the other way, as a European, I've been to multiple places Asia and the Middle East and everything is either the same size or smaller than in Europe. I haven't been to Africa or the Americas, but I'd say from my perspective, that things in the US are just extra large.

> I haven't been to Africa or the Americas, but I'd say from my perspective, that things in the US are just extra large.

That's probably it.

I've also been to New Zealand, and everything was smaller there too. Though still not as small as stuff in Europe.

Cars are where it holds the most true. I told my American friend we're thinking of getting a Mazda CX-5. His reaction was, "why so small?"

I told my Portuguese tutor I was considering the same car. He asked why we needed something so large.

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