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Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

centerforbuilding.org

21–30 of 215 posts

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#21
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bobby Floorplans should know that the magic bullet is a land value tax, not single stair.

Land value taxes assume real estate values always increase, which they don’t

If the rentable price was 6k one year and 5k the next then you’d simply pay less rent for the land.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#22
> In other words, even if developers built more two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments, you probably wouldn’t be able to afford one

But almost most apartments are multi-bedroom???

I searched my area on Zillow for Apartments/Condos for rent. [1]

Studio - 85

1 bed - 225

2 bed - 233

3 bed - 39

4 bed - 1

https://www.zillow.com/salt-lake-city-ut/rental-buildings/?s...

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#23
post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

>Just everything in Europe is tiny. T i n y. And frankly, it's not that much cheaper over here either.

I would argue the other way, as a European, I've been to multiple places Asia and the Middle East and everything is either the same size or smaller than in Europe.

I haven't been to Africa or the Americas, but I'd say from my perspective, that things in the US are just extra large.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#24

I'm not an expert on building codes but a large difference in North America is there is much more space in general when building new so I don't quite think the argument is valid. Americans simply want a lot more space. If a developer built smaller sized 3 or 4 bedroom apartments they would have trouble selling to the price point they want.

Right, but this makes sprawl. There is more space, but how much of it are we going to dedicate to parking, larger units, etc? How tall will we make the building?

Things here are really, really bad. Zoning is the only lever we have to fix it.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#25
'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. Children/large families can be noisy. And they benefit from safe outdoor space to play.

For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. I know this from experience. Thankfully, noise-cancelling headphones are pretty good these days.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#26
post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

In Europe a closet is furniture, not a built in room.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#27
post #3

> In other words, even if developers built more two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments I'm confused. The overwhelming majority of apartments in my state are two and three bedroom ones.

Generally not the case in a lot of HCOL areas. For example in NYC, most new developments are built out something like this: 4 bedrooms - less than 5%, 3 bedrooms - 10%, 2 bedrooms - 30%, 1 bedrooms - 40%, studios - 15%. As a result, the larger units are not just more expensive due to square footage, but the pricing scales non-linearly per square foot because 3+ bedroom units are a rarity. Typically you'll see a 3BR h…

Seems like an easyish solution would be to have some modular walls. Like imagine if you had a repeating layout like - [ 2br | studio | 2br ] where the | represent say a section of wall that is designed to be disassembled and removed. Then either 2br can be converted into a 3br by unbricking the doorway, so to speak. If neither 2br needs it it can be rented out on it's own as a studio. Or even take out BOTH walls and convert into a giant 4/5 BR extended family unit.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#28

> In other words, even if developers built more two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments, you probably wouldn’t be able to afford one But almost most apartments are multi-bedroom??? I searched my area on Zillow for Apartments/Condos for rent. [1] Studio - 85 1 bed - 225 2 bed - 233 3 bed - 39 4 bed - 1 https://www.zillow.com/salt-lake-city-ut/rental-buildings/?s...

Salt Lake City isn't representative of the US -- and in particular places in the US with a housing shortage.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#29
post #3

> In other words, even if developers built more two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments I'm confused. The overwhelming majority of apartments in my state are two and three bedroom ones.

Generally not the case in a lot of HCOL areas. For example in NYC, most new developments are built out something like this: 4 bedrooms - less than 5%, 3 bedrooms - 10%, 2 bedrooms - 30%, 1 bedrooms - 40%, studios - 15%. As a result, the larger units are not just more expensive due to square footage, but the pricing scales non-linearly per square foot because 3+ bedroom units are a rarity. Typically you'll see a 3BR h…

NYC is peculiar in many respects...sq ft cost, rent controls, affordable housing initiatives.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#30
post #10

basically everything I read about the USA housing market seems so weird, especially in SF/Silicon Valley. They makret themselves as being this "tech area" yet they have 100 year old houses with limits of 2 floors. or big suburbs without anything in them. Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing?

> Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing?

Outside of SF and Silicon Valley.

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