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Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

centerforbuilding.org

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Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#11

Post by nottorp »

bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

> the kitchen has a refrigerator smaller than the one my American best friend uses for beer

It's possible that you can walk 5 min to get more beer while he has to drive 30 minutes?

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#12

Post by epistasis »

bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

It's not just Bobby Fijan, there's also Michael Elias, an architect, who has been trying to build family suitable apartments in the US after experiencing them in Germany.

The problem really is the hallway cutting the building in half. It puts such restrictions on what can be built in sensible ways.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#13

Post by steveBK123 »

JohnFen wrote: post #3

> In other words, even if developers built more two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments I'm confused. The overwhelming majority of apartments in my state are two and three bedroom ones.

Generally not the case in a lot of HCOL areas. For example in NYC, most new developments are built out something like this:

4 bedrooms - less than 5%, 3 bedrooms - 10%, 2 bedrooms - 30%, 1 bedrooms - 40%, studios - 15%.

As a result, the larger units are not just more expensive due to square footage, but the pricing scales non-linearly per square foot because 3+ bedroom units are a rarity. Typically you'll see a 3BR have 50% more square footage than 2BR but cost 2x the price.

It's not uncommon for people who have their first kid in a 2BR to then buy a studio or 1BR in the same building for their kids to play / grandparents to stay over, rather than selling and upgrading to a 3BR.. as insanely inconvenient as that sounds, due to cost.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#14

Post by reaperman »

aorloff wrote: post #6
hooverd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bobby Floorplans should know that the magic bullet is a land value tax, not single stair.

Land value taxes assume real estate values always increase, which they don’t

How is this assumption required by the LVT system? My basic reading of LVT suggests that the assessed tax value of land could increase or decrease just as the current property tax system can increase or decrease.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#15

Post by epistasis »

hooverd wrote: post #5
bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

Bobby Floorplans should know that the magic bullet is a land value tax, not single stair.

As a land value tax advocate, I also agree with Bobby Fijan here. There needs to be a way to build these safe, sensible floor plans in the US.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#16

Post by tomrod »

pwb25 wrote: post #10

basically everything I read about the USA housing market seems so weird, especially in SF/Silicon Valley. They makret themselves as being this "tech area" yet they have 100 year old houses with limits of 2 floors. or big suburbs without anything in them. Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing?

Sued out of existence for ignoring licensing laws during startup, I'd reckon.

Or, contractors.

I get the feeling residential building doesn't scale well outside of monopolistic competition, partially from red tape, partially from supply constraints/supplier network monopsonies.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#17

Post by pc86 »

pwb25 wrote: post #10

basically everything I read about the USA housing market seems so weird, especially in SF/Silicon Valley. They makret themselves as being this "tech area" yet they have 100 year old houses with limits of 2 floors. or big suburbs without anything in them. Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing?

> Where is the...airbnb...for housing?

Nobody tell him.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#18

Post by pwb25 »

pc86 wrote: post #17
pwb25 wrote: post #10

basically everything I read about the USA housing market seems so weird, especially in SF/Silicon Valley. They makret themselves as being this "tech area" yet they have 100 year old houses with limits of 2 floors. or big suburbs without anything in them. Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing?

> Where is the...airbnb...for housing? Nobody tell him.

airbnb creates 0 new houses from what I know, so don't get your smug comment

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#19

Post by egh »

JohnFen wrote: post #3

> In other words, even if developers built more two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments I'm confused. The overwhelming majority of apartments in my state are two and three bedroom ones.

How do you know that? Have you looked at statistics for housing stock in the US in general? You can find it here: https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/quick-facts-figures/qu...

And if you're curious about new construction, you can find it here https://www.census.gov/construction/chars/highlights.html

You'll find that in 2022 over half of new apartment units had 1 bedroom or less. I guess you live in a very different state that is not reflective of overall trends across the US.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#20

Post by pwb25 »

tomrod wrote: post #16
pwb25 wrote: post #10

basically everything I read about the USA housing market seems so weird, especially in SF/Silicon Valley. They makret themselves as being this "tech area" yet they have 100 year old houses with limits of 2 floors. or big suburbs without anything in them. Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing?

Sued out of existence for ignoring licensing laws during startup, I'd reckon. Or, contractors. I get the feeling residential building doesn't scale well outside of monopolistic competition, partially from red tape, partially from supply constraints/supplier network monopsonies.

I mean they could try to talk to politicians and NIMBYs

but it seems like many programmers in silicon valley enjoy their wooden walls houses with no shops or bars around them just because they go up in value

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