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Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

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Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#41

Post by wslh »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #36
wslh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools. If we are talking about high schools and mainly technical high schools banning tech is contrary to the point of the school. I think a balanced view is better: carrying laptops on classes where you need them and also adapt classes if laptop could be beneficial. Even in elementary school, my child has robotics. In general, I think politicians use binary yes/no…

It seems common to confuse teaching children about technology and having children taught by technology . The former is essential to a modern economy and way of life. The latter is road to laziness, poor mental health and terrible learning outcomes.

Agree 100%. The problem is that politics is the slowest and more incompetent mile . And here we are not talking about really complex issues like wars and/or terrorism.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#42

Post by happytiger »

throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#43

Post by lukan »

dalore wrote: post #33
lukan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily). Computers are normal in everyday life and allmost every job. Whether it is research, or writing or programming - artificially seperating students from such a integral part of modern life seems not that practical. At least not, if the goal is to raise the general level of computer savviness - which…

Computers can and are being used to poison the mind. You can get distracted, you can play games, you can go on sites like chat roulette which are popular with the kids etc Knives are used in everyday life and can't explode or poison you either, yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example. So saying if something can or can't explode is not a useful metric. Teaching them how to use a computer under gui…

"yet we don't let our kids run around with knives for example."

Actually some do. Boy scouts traditionally for example do not think, that kids are generally to be treated as idiots.

So yes, you do not give a knive to someone who cannot handle it. There are 20 year olds who should not be given anything sharper than a plastic knive. But a ordinary child usually can handle dangerous stuff - you lead them there, step by step.

Same with computers, smartphones etc. If neccessary, you can provide a locked down environment at first, with only approved apps and sites (or no internet at all).

But one day, they need to handle it all, without someone holding their hands. And they cannot learn it, if they always only navigated a locked down safe space.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#44

Post by [deleted] »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #40
draugadrotten wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of tech like chemistry class. We don't let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Instead, we have them do experiments in a special lab under close watch. Computers should be treated the same way. They shouldn't be something students can use anytime, anywhere without guidance. Just like we handle dangerous chemicals with care, we should also be careful with technology. It's powerful, and…

The dirty secret is that a lot of teaching is being offloaded to proprietary education programs, at least in elementary school. So like it or not, computers are increasingly becoming not only a sideshow but a primary part of the fabric of education. Part of me wants to see a program where students have to build everything from scratch before they can use it. Like each student gets something like a Rasberry Pi and the…

[deleted]

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#45

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

a321neo wrote: post #24

Public sector IT in Denmark has been in a weird tug of war between those eager to sell out our data to American companies and those who naively think Ubuntu and LibreOffice can realistically replace the public sector's dependency on Microsoft. We need to keep our data in Denmark and become less dependent on American companies (and especially Microsoft/Google). But the change needs to be led by IT professionals who ca…

I'm far from a Linux zealot, in fact I'm writing this from Windows as it's the OS I prefer for my personal computing needs, but I don't see much of a problem with elderly office workers using Linux.

The main problem with Linux usability is installing and updating it. If all you do is browse, fill web forms and write documents, and you have the software to do so installed and maintained by someone else, I don't see how it can be much harder to use than Windows. It could even be easier in the sense that they could safely open "catvideo.exe" while slacking at work without causing a disaster.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#46

Post by nonrandomstring »

lukan wrote: post #23
draugadrotten wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of tech like chemistry class. We don't let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Instead, we have them do experiments in a special lab under close watch. Computers should be treated the same way. They shouldn't be something students can use anytime, anywhere without guidance. Just like we handle dangerous chemicals with care, we should also be careful with technology. It's powerful, and…

Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily). Computers are normal in everyday life and allmost every job. Whether it is research, or writing or programming - artificially seperating students from such a integral part of modern life seems not that practical. At least not, if the goal is to raise the general level of computer savviness - which…

While the chemistry analogy is good, the problem is not with computers per se. Children who are so inclined should be allowed to have personal computers (like Raspberry Pi) for experimentation.

They should also be warned about the potential harms as part of their technological education. Children who are adept at typing should be allowed small laptops for note taking. These are just tools. Kids are not all the same, and choice is paramount here.

The issue is not the computers but the awful and toxic software that gets onto them. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Instagram... and other edu-tech wares have absolutely no place in our schools.

They stifle curiosity and free-thinking, and impose meek compliance, and deference to authoritarian values. These are commercial concerns that intrude into places they have no right to, whose objectives are fundamentally misaligned with education because they exploit, extract, distract, manipulate, spy, addict demotivate young minds.

Teaching kids about technology is essential, and should include teaching them proper scepticism and caution. Allowing children to be taught by technology is an abdication of responsibility by schools, teachers and parents.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#47

Post by bell-cot »

Current HN Title:

> Danish schools will no longer be allowed to use Chromebooks and Google platforms

The ACTUAL Title of article, and leading paragraphs, may (sadly) tell a slightly different story:

> Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

> 03 Feb, 2024

> This week saw a conclusion on the Danish Chromebook case. The result, long-awaited by father and privacy activist Jesper Graugaard, shows that the Danish Data Protection Authority has issued an injunction regarding the tracking of children's personal data via Chromebook and Google platforms in schools.

> From 1 August 2024 onwards, Danish schools will no longer be allowed to enable Chromebooks and Google platforms to collect students' personal data for processing. Each municipality will need to give an indication of how they will comply to this injunction by 1 March 2024.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#48

Post by blackhaz »

throwaway71271 wrote: post #20
blackhaz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't have any tech in school and yet we've turned out just fine, now sitting here and typing this on HN. I'm all for banning tech from schools. Allowing Google to enter the school system has been a crime against our children.

We are very much responsible for being on the wrong side in the war against general purpose computing. The "user" not being able to change or understand any single program they use, being driven further and further away form the technology, in an almost comical way, that we have arrived to the point of "I dont know if i can plug a keyboard in my laptop". She tried to save a file, which of course did not work due to s…

Oh yeah, those kids don't understand the concept of a file, or where and how it is actually stored, or what the file format represents, or that they can even change anything. They don't care about storage, as everything is intangible in the cloud. Our children are dumbed down by the cloud and Google going out of its way to present everything the Google way.

We are decoupling our children from the actual underlying electrophysical reality by feeding them the Google version of computing, which is a lazy, stupid, point-and-click reduction of the actual processes.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#49

Post by 4gotunameagain »

a321neo wrote: post #24

Public sector IT in Denmark has been in a weird tug of war between those eager to sell out our data to American companies and those who naively think Ubuntu and LibreOffice can realistically replace the public sector's dependency on Microsoft. We need to keep our data in Denmark and become less dependent on American companies (and especially Microsoft/Google). But the change needs to be led by IT professionals who ca…

Unfortunately the US will never stop the hard courting of Denmark (the influence of which can be readily seen in Danish society, as American values are antithetical to Scandinavian values), because of Thule Air Base, the northernmost US military base, in Greenland.

You can see how much young Danes idolise the US. This could be said for more EU countries, but by my experience living in Denmark, it is much more pronounced there.

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