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More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

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Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#181

Post by jacobgorm »

taylortbb wrote: post #126
m_a_g wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you including only US airlines for comparing a plane model's safety? That seems very convenient. And even worse you are using other planes data as well.

> Why are you including only US airlines for comparing a plane model's safety? That seems very convenient 737 MAXs are not identical worldwide. There's a number of optional add-ons, which even discount US airlines will pay for, but emerging market discount airlines will not. Specifically for the 737 MAX crashes, it was from a faulty AoA sensor. Neither of the crashed planes had the AoA disagree alert option, but all…

A company reckless enough to make "no single point a failure" a pay-for optional feature is not a company whose planes I would like to fly on, regardless of where the company operating the plane is registered.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#182

Post by fch42 »

Twirrim wrote: post #52
spamizbad wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think having an engineer as a leader is some golden ticket to success. Its ultimately what ruined Nortel for example.

Same for Sun Microsystems.

Sun Microsystems never had an engineering-career CEO; whether Scott McNealy, Ed Zander, or Ponytail ... all on the sales side. No doubt it had strong "CTO" type people. Though not in the CEO, chairman or president/COO positions.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#184

Post by stouset »

taylortbb wrote: post #126
m_a_g wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you including only US airlines for comparing a plane model's safety? That seems very convenient. And even worse you are using other planes data as well.

> Why are you including only US airlines for comparing a plane model's safety? That seems very convenient 737 MAXs are not identical worldwide. There's a number of optional add-ons, which even discount US airlines will pay for, but emerging market discount airlines will not. Specifically for the 737 MAX crashes, it was from a faulty AoA sensor. Neither of the crashed planes had the AoA disagree alert option, but all…

I actually specifically mentioned airlines operating in the U.S., which includes international flights operated by foreign airlines. But yes, you get to the heart of the matter. The U.S. in general expends more time and effort on safety: higher-spec airplanes, more crew hours and training, better maintenance, etc.

It doesn’t feel relevant to most people on this site to include airlines operating on a shoestring budget in Southeast Asia or Africa in the statistics. It also doesn’t feel fair to manufacturers to penalize them for operators that barely maintain their planes, overfly inexperienced pilots, and that lack basic safety regulation.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#185

Post by Gibbon1 »

wongarsu wrote: post #36
balderdash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this a technical problem - it’s a matter of changing culture.

It's frequently framed as an issue with Boing now having an accounting-driven culture instead of an engineering-driven culture. In that framing a CEO with engineering background is a logical choice to effect that culture change.

Not even accounting driven. It's MBA driven.

Accounts ask how much things cost and go from there. MBA's figure out how much things need to cost to make their spreadsheet work and tell you that's what you get.

Which is what happened at Boeing. They told the engineers they were going to develop the 787 for half the cost of previous models (we are very very smart). And it took twice as long and cost twice as much. Given that they couldn't afford a clean slate redesign of the 737 even if they wanted to. The result is the 737 Max which will cost them more than a clean redesign would have.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#186

Post by mcphage »

gruez wrote: post #148
PaulHoule wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about safety, it's about the flying experience and environmental responsibility. If you think "flying sucks" it's probably because you've flown in a 737 and similar (A320) aircraft. Many people find it highly stressful to fly in a 737-class airplane because the curve of the fuselage is circular. My neck starts to lock up just thinking about it, but you don't have the same problem riding in a car, bus, o…

> domestic flyers in the U.S. deserve something better than a 1967 design. Or maybe the market has spoken. Similar to how people complain about lack of legroom but proceed to book with airlines that have less legroom because it's cheaper, they're happy to fly on 1967 design planes to save a buck.

> Similar to how people complain about lack of legroom but proceed to book with airlines that have less legroom because it's cheaper

When you're booking a plane ticket, you don't have much information about the legroom amount. Maybe you can tell somewhat from the airline, but most airlines have a variety of different planes, and I don't know how to use that information to determine legroom.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#187

Post by stouset »

epcoa wrote: post #167
stouset wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My lack of including that flight was a mistake. I was unaware that Comair was operating as a subsidiary of Delta. Still, it doesn’t really change the upshot. No manufacturer was at fault here. And even if you include this flight in the data, flying in the U.S. is safer than any other form of travel. I chose to limit it to airlines operating in the U.S. due to our generally higher expectations around maintenance, pilo…

> Still, it doesn’t really change the upshot Indeed it does not, which made the omission more strange or innocent. What was ridiculous was the apologia subthread. > small tourism operators who are often far less rigorous in their safety practices, with relatively low-hour pilots. There have been some improvements (in part due to these accidents) but this isn’t so far off from the regionals which was definitely a fact…

It was not my intent to exclude regionals operating regularly-scheduled white-label service for the majors.

It was my intent to exclude microscopic commercial operators doing charter flights, tourism, and other similar activities.

I sincerely apologize for the omission, I did not recognize that that Comair flight was operating under the United banner.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#188

Post by twh270 »

denton-scratch wrote: post #171
Workaccount2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

I don't buy the oft-repeated claim that you can re-make a company simply by replacing the CEO. I don't believe that CEOs in large companies have much influence on the company's direction, except in terms of decisions to downsize/outsource, how to use money, and who's on the board. There's only so much one person can do (and accordingly, I think all big-company CEOs are vastly overpaid). Moving the deckchairs in the b…

You can't "re-make" a company by replacing the CEO/CxO, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the influence of the c-suite either. What they care about and talk about filters down, often through unofficial channels of communication, and it does have an impact on how front-line employees do their work. Of course, this does take time and often involves some changes in management as well.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#189

Post by Log_out_ »

spamizbad wrote: post #22
Workaccount2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

I don't think having an engineer as a leader is some golden ticket to success. Its ultimately what ruined Nortel for example.

So ip theft without re-percussions was not at the heart of that downfall. Honestly, if ip is that blatantly stolen, a company should have the right to penalty Tarif all products there IP flows into without licenses in perpetuity until a patent would have expired.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#190

Post by drak0n1c »

golemotron wrote: post #19

Is there a travel site that allows you to filter out 737Maxes?

Look up the flight code on flight tracking sites before you check out. See what plane was used for most days in the last couple weeks. That's the model you'll get 95% of the time.
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