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More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

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Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#41

Post by FrustratedMonky »

rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

If this is what is happening, then that is encouraging.

Anytime a corporation had 'culture of silence'.

Then turns it around to be 'speak up'.

There is a backlog of issues that comes out before the situation improves.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#42

Post by [deleted] »

BoxFour wrote: post #13
Workaccount2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

Like this guy? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Muilenburg

[deleted]

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#43

Post by everybodyknows »

> As of Friday, the "non-conformance" or quality defect had been found in 22 fuselages out of 47 inspected up to that point, spread between Boeing and Spirit, and may exist in some 737s in service, the sources said.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-boeing-delays-73...

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#44

Post by jacquesm »

loeg wrote: post #35
rootusrootus wrote: post #15

This transparency is good, don't punish them for it. There's no guarantee whatsoever that other plane manufacturers don't run into similar problems and don't announce them.

I have to wonder if they're using this opportunity to dump all of their known bad production issues so they don't get sued for misleading shareholders later. The kind of stuff that wouldn't have ever come to light if the door hadn't fallen off that Portland flight. Maybe it's even something they can try to spin as improving quality control practices for brand rehabilitation. Or maybe I am just imagining things.

There is a pretty good chance (about 100%) that after that door fell off they are reviewing a lot of stuff and that is why this has been found, not so they can 'dump all of their known bad production issues' but simply because they are becoming aware of them and are legally mandated to report those issues.

> Or maybe I am just imagining things.

Quite possibly. I'm as cynical as they come but I'm actually happy that they report these issues and I hope that they will do this exhaustively until they have a proper inventory of what went wrong so they have a chance to really repair both the issues and their culture, and hopefully before there is another incident.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#45

Post by FrustratedMonky »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #33
rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

I said this in a previous thread, a QA/QC/SOP firm either has a culture where nobody would dare violate SOP or it doesn’t. It’s not about “admitting” a problem, they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect. But as the QA guys where I work say, they are a cost center. There are two real questions here, can Boeing strictly follow…

Wonder if this is problem.

Current QA/SOP's are onerous and very expensive to follow. But are based on having someone 'monitor' and 'check' everything. So two people, someone doing the work, and someone checking the work.

But seems like the old Boeing culture, was each employee cared about quality, so would check themselves. So needed less QA people, because everyone would 'do the right thing'.

So now that the culture is broken. Enforcing current QA/SOP's with additional QA people is un-profitable.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#46

Post by repiret »

Etheryte wrote: post #24
golemotron wrote: post #19

Is there a travel site that allows you to filter out 737Maxes?

This question comes up every time articles like these come up and the answer is no, there is no reliable way unless you check what airplane you're boarding right as you walk on it. Airlines regularly swap out planes to cover up for delayed flights, weather, mismatched demand etc and the plane model you're shown as you're buying the ticket is not necessarily the plane you're gonna fly.

I’m not convinced that actually happens very often. I can’t remember a case where it has happened to me, and consider that changing to a type with a different number of seats would require issue in new tickets. And you need to balance demand not on a single route, but on the entire circuit the plane needs to fly.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#47

Post by defenestration »

stouset wrote: post #18
user3939382 wrote: post #4

This is to the point where, although it's irrational but I know statistically I'd be fine, I'd be scared to fly on any new generation Boeing.

It is irrational. Since November 2001, there has been one death aboard a major airline operating in the U.S.[1]. That was a Southwest flight where an entire engine self-destructed. It was an issue with the CFM engine, Not with anything Boeing did. You might choose to include one more. An Asiana flight tumbled end over end after arriving short at SFO. Everyone survived the crash, but a passenger was killed when an eme…

For distance traveled flying is safer than any other form of transportation (maybe except trains?). I wonder however, what the stats are for time spent. How much safer is time spent flying, compared to other forms of transportation? Is it about equal, a bit safer or an order of magnitude safer?

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#49

Post by gruez »

m_a_g wrote: post #38
stouset wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is irrational. Since November 2001, there has been one death aboard a major airline operating in the U.S.[1]. That was a Southwest flight where an entire engine self-destructed. It was an issue with the CFM engine, Not with anything Boeing did. You might choose to include one more. An Asiana flight tumbled end over end after arriving short at SFO. Everyone survived the crash, but a passenger was killed when an eme…

Why are you including only US airlines for comparing a plane model's safety? That seems very convenient. And even worse you are using other planes data as well.

Because most readers of this site are American, and fly on airlines from the US. When assessing their risk, it makes sense to use US statistics.
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