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More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

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Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#31

Post by tines »

balderdash wrote: post #14
Workaccount2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

I don’t think this a technical problem - it’s a matter of changing culture.

Exactly - management culture and engineering culture are opposite ends of a spectrum.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#33

Post by CodeWriter23 »

rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

I said this in a previous thread, a QA/QC/SOP firm either has a culture where nobody would dare violate SOP or it doesn’t. It’s not about “admitting” a problem, they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect. But as the QA guys where I work say, they are a cost center.

There are two real questions here, can Boeing strictly follow their QA/QC regime and remain profitable. Second, can they get through their current period where FAA inspectors have set up shop on their premises and are now effectively another layer of supervisors. They’re in the stage now where the FAA are on the shop floor basically as cops to ensure Boeing actually does what they said they would do via the documentation in their Quality suite. They either have the war chest or the financial backing to pull that off without an immediate price increase or they’re toast.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#35

Post by loeg »

rootusrootus wrote: post #15

This transparency is good, don't punish them for it. There's no guarantee whatsoever that other plane manufacturers don't run into similar problems and don't announce them.

I have to wonder if they're using this opportunity to dump all of their known bad production issues so they don't get sued for misleading shareholders later. The kind of stuff that wouldn't have ever come to light if the door hadn't fallen off that Portland flight.

Maybe it's even something they can try to spin as improving quality control practices for brand rehabilitation. Or maybe I am just imagining things.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#36

Post by wongarsu »

balderdash wrote: post #14
Workaccount2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

I don’t think this a technical problem - it’s a matter of changing culture.

It's frequently framed as an issue with Boing now having an accounting-driven culture instead of an engineering-driven culture. In that framing a CEO with engineering background is a logical choice to effect that culture change.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#37

Post by barbazoo »

phkahler wrote: post #10
rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

>> I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. I thought I read they were planning to cut back on quality control staff this year. Was that true? Did it change?

Interesting, source?

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#38

Post by m_a_g »

stouset wrote: post #18
user3939382 wrote: post #4

This is to the point where, although it's irrational but I know statistically I'd be fine, I'd be scared to fly on any new generation Boeing.

It is irrational. Since November 2001, there has been one death aboard a major airline operating in the U.S.[1]. That was a Southwest flight where an entire engine self-destructed. It was an issue with the CFM engine, Not with anything Boeing did. You might choose to include one more. An Asiana flight tumbled end over end after arriving short at SFO. Everyone survived the crash, but a passenger was killed when an eme…

Why are you including only US airlines for comparing a plane model's safety? That seems very convenient. And even worse you are using other planes data as well.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#39

Post by magicalhippo »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #23
lotsofpulp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing’s customers have no choice. There is only one other option in town, and Airbus is at capacity for quite a few more years. The only threat Boeing has is governments fining them. So as long as governments (or the US government) let Boeing continue to function, there should be sufficient time to fix culture.

Shareholders might have an opinion though, and Ryanair buying MAX's at a discount when nobody else wanted them might not make them happy.

> Ryanair buying MAX's at a discount

I mean, to be fair this plays right into Ryanair's strategy. Want a door plug? Pay extra.

Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

#40

Post by jsiepkes »

rootusrootus wrote: post #15

This transparency is good, don't punish them for it. There's no guarantee whatsoever that other plane manufacturers don't run into similar problems and don't announce them.

> This transparency is good, don't punish them for it. There's no guarantee whatsoever that other plane manufacturers don't run into similar problems and don't announce them.

Make no mistake, there is no real transparency here. There is no sudden "culture shift".

Boeing is under a magnifying glass and no-one is going to stick their neck out and say: "Well, geez this is such a small mistake I'm going to ignore it". Because if planes start falling from the sky (again) you want your ass covered. There is currently just very little incentive for anyone (employees, managers, FAA, etc.) to led things slide.

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