231–240 of 408 posts
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Vegas makes a fuckload of money off everyone who thinks they’re smart but doesn’t understand statistics
There are only two types of people: those that believe they can outsmart the house, and those that never gamble.
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> Most likely, months after ponying up $10 million to a sophisticated international hacking group, Caesars Entertainment probably doesn't want to invite some of the world's best hackers to stay and meet at its flagship resort. Most Def con visitors would be white hats so that would be a bit disingenious. I would expect most attendees to behave (reporting issues after finding one) Especially considering they just got…
you say that like a person informed enough to know what a white hat is lol. Let’s be real here, even the ethical hacker bunch can look VERY wonky and rowdy to an outsider, especially if you are as far removed as the hospitality industry. The only time they had to deal with hackers in the recent past was decidedly painful for them
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So they're making a marketing campaign out of it with 'un-canceled' t-shirts https://shop.defcon.org/
i'm pretty sure "defcon is cancelled" is an _ooooold_ meme
Here's at least one source corroborating that[0]:
> "I think it's from around DC6 and is a reference to our only near brush with cancellation at the Monte Carlo for DC4," Def Con spokesperson Darington Forbes wrote me in an email. "I wish I had more to tell you—since it happened seventeen or so years ago my info is murky. Something about a casino mogul preferring we not use the Monte Carlo, threats of legal action."
> @ivydigital DEF CON - cancelled annually for over 20 years
> — Rich Trouton (@rtrouton) July 31, 2015
[0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezvez4/def-con-is-cancelled-...
Too bad. Now I will definitely never go there. My work sometimes gets free tickets for black hat but that's a totally boring business conference. Not worth going to on its own. I hate mingling with sales suits, I'm a real techie. Def con was something I would be looking forward to and if my work paid for black hat I could have stayed the extra days to go there.
Black Hat is the largest North American venue for vulnerability research. It's one of the closest things in the industry to a serious, peer reviewed conference, at least at this scale. It's certainly not the social scene Defcon is (indeed, it replaces that social scene with an enterprise sales hookup scene), but it's definitely not a "totally boring business conference". Black Hat talks are generally much better than…
It's the enterprise sales hookup thing that attracts most visitors though. The people from our company that go there go mainly for that. They're all VPs and other suits that have no interest in specific vulnerabilities. They just want the free wine and dine and to feel important.
I couldn't imagine going to that kind of thing. I'd only put up with it if it would give me a chance to go to Def Con :)
And it's really the Def Con social scene I'd be interested in. I'm not a vulnerability researcher either, I'm just very informal, I'm not comfortable socialising with business people even though I work in enterprise security. So I think for me black hat would be pretty boring.
What I love about the grassroots hacker conferences is the free sharing of information without commercial strings attached (in fact here in Europe people get booed off stage when they pull out the sales pitch) The presentations not vetted by PR departments. The tongue in cheek remarks against big tech. The activism. Drunkenly running into other makers and making good friends. Exchanging business cards and finding a new vendor is definitely not on the list. I don't normally go to too many of the talks either, especially not the huge ones.
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That settles it, DEF CON in Dubai, London or Amsterdam. I vote for Amsterdam. Frankfurt also has the most international destinations (just not volume). (Probably not Dubai, considering a few speakers would be thrown out at the border - or worse if they get though. It's also artificially inflated because it's almost all transit traffic). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_airports_by_in...
> It's also artificially inflated because it's almost all transit traffic Dubai is a center for large conferences and Expos. The row of High rise hotels along Sheik Zayed Road across from Dubai World Trade Center (the largest exhibition hall in Dubai) is astounding. Gitex, Gulfood and Arab Health are all conference that are largest in their class world wide. And while A lot of DXBs traffic is transfers, the city does…
Well, they literally enslaved foreign men to work as indentured workers, stripping their human rights, in order to build the city...
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Vegas makes a fuckload of money off everyone who thinks they’re smart but doesn’t understand statistics
Not just statistic. There are plenty of smart defcon people who understand statistics but don't understand that if you start winning they'll just kick you out.
The only reason to kick you out would be if they believed you somehow have an edge on them.
The customer who got lucky at first and is willing to try to be lucky again and again is the best customer for the casinos.
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And card counters.
Do they still exist? They have closed most of the gaps previously exploited by card counters, and continuous shufflers are everywhere. I think the only ones who can make money are those playing poker and are really good at it. That's because they are playing against other players and not the bank. They still have to beat the rake. I'm not even sure comp players, that is those who play to get non-cash rewards like tra…
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DEF CON started as a bunch of teenagers running away from home to get ridiculously drunk and trash some place, and it hasn't changed much. Vegas was the perfect choice. It was a party. Getting to smash up an obscene capitalist hellhole was a key perk, and still is to this day.
Ahh I see. This way it makes a lot more sense, thanks for the explanation :) I go to a lot of European hacker parties/camps and I can certainly recognise the mindset you mention (and I identify with that mindset as well even though I work in a corporate job). For this reason Las Vegas made no sense to me but in light of your comment it does now. And yeah getting ridiculously drunk is definitely part of the experience…
Since we are talking about stuff that we don't think should be associated with hacking this is my own pet peeve. What does "getting drunk" have to do with hacking? And why is it always "absolutely smashed" or "ridiculously drunk". I get that most hacker types are shy introverts and couple drinks makes things more fun and socially fluid, but why does it need to go to hangover(s)? 9
This is primary reason which keeps me away from many "hacking camps", they are cool for couple hours, but as the sun goes down things just get sketchy and boring when I have to take care of bunch of drunk strangers.
After the impact of the MGM hack this year Cesars probably revisited their insurance on getting compromised. After the auditors and lawyers looked at all the risks they came across DEF CON and said no because of the wording of how DEF CON is marketed. Their choice was probably to drop them or loose coverage. DEF CON is listed as a "hacker convention held annually in Las Vegas, Nevada." where Blackhat is "Black Hat is…
Caesars was hacked by the same attackers that pwned Okta, and used the stolen keys and tokens to get into Caesars. It was nothing carried out by Defcon in any way. Anyone that takes this scene seriously knows Defcon is the place to be. Blackhat is a overpriced vendor circle jerk. The only way to make Blackhat relevant again is to kick out all of the vendors and if you can't do that, forbid them from collecting people…
You think insurance providers are capable of doing this level of analysis? They see "hacker conference" in which Defcon may still hold some notoriety in and decide it's a risk.
Hope this allows them to really spread their wings a bit more.