How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#141

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:14 PM UTC

rxvium wrote: post #139

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #36

It's sad that most people are less "legally literate" than they are "scientifically literate", when the former affects them more often throughout life. Schools should teach kids how to not get screwed over with the law. Tenants' rights in particular is very important and almost nobody I know understands them, or how brazenly landlords/management companies will rip you off if you let them.

Yes and no. I think it's important to make everyone aware of their basic rights, but also make it known that they are NOT legal experts by any means, and that it's a extremely complicated field. There's a reason why it takes several years of education and testing to become an attorney.

[deleted]

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#142

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:18 PM UTC

anticorporate wrote: post #118

NegativeK wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I see talking about their legal literacy are best described as cocky and dangerous to themselves and others they give advice to. The same behavior shows up with medical literacy. Maybe schooling could help with that.

> Most people I see talking about their legal literacy are best described as cocky and dangerous to themselves and others they give advice to. 100%. I have a side hustle doing etching, engraving, and CNC-type things. The forums and groups for this kind of things are teeming with people who not just believe, but tell others, that copyright and trademark either don't apply to them for $reasons or doesn't even exist for…

Those people exist at least partly because they haven't received education to the contrary. There will always be cocky, ignorant, wrong people in the world. But they certainly won't get any smarter if we don't teach them.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#143

Post by PM_me_your_math » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:33 PM UTC

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Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#144

Post by zamadatix » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #39

bigfatfrock wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple C&Ds?! You make me realize I might not be living the adventure I should be.

They're usually more boring than you might realize. For example, if your new business's trademark is similar to an established company's.

Yeah, we received one about having t-shirts that said "network ninja" for instance. We held a small party that afternoon celebrating that someone actually noticed our marketing.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#145

Post by JohnFen » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

wharvle wrote: post #104

coldpie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should everyone in the US have a lawyer on call? I had a coworker at a previous job who often talked about "her family's attorney." I'm like, families have attorneys? I don't think I've talked to a lawyer once in my life.

I always feel like there's a whole rule-book of "how to Do Life" that I didn't get, for this easing-into-the-upper-middle-class and/or doing-serious-business-stuff shit, that other people just know , because of who their families are and who they grew up hanging out with. I gather the version of that I did get was the middle-class version—which some others didn't get and have a similar "wait, that's just normal ?" re…

> Having a house cleaner come in for the first time was fucking weird. Still is, really. I can't relax, feel like I ought to be helping.

A long time ago, I had a house cleaner come in once per week to do deep cleaning stuff. It was quite a luxury! However, I always spent a couple of hours cleaning the house in preparation for their arrival.

What I've noticed is a shift with age and wealth. When I was young and poor, I had time and energy in abundance and never hired people to do anything for me (excepting for specialized things like medical care). Now that I'm old and more comfortable, I don't have any issue hiring people to do things I can technically do myself.

I look at it this way: whether you hire someone or DIY it, you're paying something to get it done. If not money, then time and effort. I just pay in the manner that, big picture, costs me the least. When young and poor, my time and effort was worth less than actual money. Now, money is often worth less than my time and effort.

Is it worth paying $50 to have the neighborhood kid mow my lawn for me? Younger me would say absolutely not. Current me says absolutely.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#146

Post by stephenhuey » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:47 PM UTC

dpedu wrote: post #119

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of sounding very dumb — what were you able to determine from that? I have no idea what it means, almost sounds like the mafia Edit: their about page sounds even more mafia-esque. “Dealogic connects banks and investors in the only truly global network… Firms who use Dealogic see results in increased profitability and productivity… Whether you want to analyze wallet share, execute a deal, align operating un…

> what were you able to determine from that I interpret this as: a company that is successful not because it provides a service that is useful or good, but one that other companies - in this case "financial firms" - are FORCED to buy, usually through compliance or regulatory means. Think of it like an auto insurance company advertising themselves as "your trusted partner on the roads." Yeah I guess, but it's still me…

I'm not as familiar with the compliance part of their solution, so there could be some of what you're talking about. I don't think their software is totally useless, just possibly, um, over-priced, and needing competitors. :)

Our lightweight SaaS was focused on analytics related to share of wallet and return on capital and improving insights into client relationships. With our tool, an investment banker could perform some tasks in seconds or minutes that normally an MD expected a junior analyst to do in hours or days. Not rocket science, but useful. And not as expensive as Dealogic. I wish I could say our creation was taking the world by storm, but we haven't been involved for many years and as so often happens with acquisitions, they didn't really execute well on our original target audience and took it in another direction.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#147

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 9:56 PM UTC

KieranMac wrote: post #136

SoftTalker wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I'm with you, I am absolutely loathe to hire anyone to do something I could do myself. I've done major home repairs, painting, flooring, kitchen and bath remodels, I do almost all my own auto repairs and maintenance, I do my own laundry, I clean my own house, I cut my own grass. I have neighbors who just pay for someone to do all that without a second thought.

There are certain tasks that you would never do yourself, such as surgery. And there are certain tasks like changing your oil where anyone with patience and diligence can do it themselves. It's just a question of whether you want to spend the time to learn it and do it. Responding to a C&D letter from a Fortune 50 company, I would posit, is more like performing surgery than changing your oil. The cost of being wrong…

Right, that's the "I could do myself" part.

Though I've generally been disappointed with the legal services I've hired. Law and medicine seems like most professions, there are some really good practitioners and a lot who are mediocre but have passed the minimum required qualifications, and it's hard for an outsider to immediately spot the difference.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#148

Post by splitstud » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 10:19 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #113

JohnFen wrote: post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

It's weird to me that big tech hasn't thought about offering a financial reward with C&D's. "We will pay you $10000 if you C&D" seems like pennies to them, much less than the cost of legal fees, a nice amount of cash for a personal project that hasn't monetized yet. Or a job "We will give you a job offer to work on X if you C&D your own work on X" also seems like a great strategy. If someone has already demonstrated…

2 days later 1000 people would be subscribed to r/C&Dfarming

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#149

Post by feoren » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 10:22 PM UTC

phasetransition wrote: post #66

gwright wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to avoid the snarky "hire an attorney" answer but once you get past that necessary first step I do have a few tips: * get comfortable reading legal documents, this will allow you to have more intelligent conversations with your attorney * don't let your attorney make your business decisions, one of their jobs is to point out risks, one of your jobs (owner/ceo/leadership) is to figure out how to mitigate ris…

As the (non lawyer) who fell into managing all US legal firm interactions for my day job, I support this list. If you are comfortable with legal documents; have a law dictionary to understand what specific language means; and read historical case law on the topic in question, you will be well prepared to have a seat at the table with your attorneys.

> read historical case law on the topic in question

Is this even at all accessible to anyone who isn't already in a major law firm? I'm assuming it requires some sort of thousand-dollar subscription to an exploitative publishing house?

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#150

Post by KieranMac » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 10:30 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #147

KieranMac wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certain tasks that you would never do yourself, such as surgery. And there are certain tasks like changing your oil where anyone with patience and diligence can do it themselves. It's just a question of whether you want to spend the time to learn it and do it. Responding to a C&D letter from a Fortune 50 company, I would posit, is more like performing surgery than changing your oil. The cost of being wrong…

Right, that's the "I could do myself" part. Though I've generally been disappointed with the legal services I've hired. Law and medicine seems like most professions, there are some really good practitioners and a lot who are mediocre but have passed the minimum required qualifications, and it's hard for an outsider to immediately spot the difference.

Speaking of surgery, here's an analogy that might be helpful.

Five years ago I had a catastrophic ankle injury I suffered while running in Moab. Two broken bones, lots of torn ligaments, and otherwise irreparable damage without serious surgery.

I interviewed a whole bunch of surgeons before I decided where to go under the knife. And I don't remember where I got the advice, but someone told me the most important question to ask is: "How many times have you performed this specific surgery (a Maisonneuve fracture repair)?"

I eventually found the Steadman clinic and a doctor who had already performed the exact surgery I needed nearly 100 times. Everyone else's answer was less than 5. Some even answered 0. The surgical clinic I used had signed pictures of professional athletes all over the wall. I found the true specialist, and I'm very thankful that I did.

Even bad lawyers and surgeons are expensive. When you have a bet-the-business legal issue, do plenty of advanced interviewing to make sure that the one you hire has plenty of experience with the exact issue you need help with. If it's not obvious that you've found the right person, keep looking.