How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#31

Post by User23 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

> *Apparently there are some legal systems, particularly in Europe, where the costs of taking Big Tech to court are lower. You’d have to ask your lawyer about that. The time and willpower aspects may be similar though.

I’m not a lawyer, let alone a European lawyer, but I’ve heard that the drain-their-bankroll-with-spurious-motions technique that’s beloved by shithead corporations and their attorneys when they have no case isn’t practicable in most European jurisdictions. This is because even at the motion filing level, loser pays. So drowning you in garbage motions just gives your lawyer an easy payday.

Odds of the US adopting that system?

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#32

Post by bigfatfrock » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

Multiple C&Ds?! You make me realize I might not be living the adventure I should be.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#33

Post by encomiast » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

jdsully wrote: post #19

The premise of this article is that you somehow have to respond to it which is nuts. If the letter is ridiculous (e.g. citing terms of service you did not sign) then you're better off to ignore it and not waste money on legal fees. Also everyone who suggests getting a lawyer has probably not had to hire one in the past. With very few exceptions they will tell you it "depends" and maybe give you a few legal terms you…

Not sure we read the same article. The first point under "Decide how to respond" is "1. Ignore" (although it suggests this is risky if ignore includes continuing what lead to the C&D)

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#34

Post by smashah » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

We are well within a Digital Age and we are now digital human beings. Adversarial Interop is a fundamental Digital Human Right.

Louis has been on the frontlines of this unjustly lonely battle against big evil megacorps (META specifically) for the last few years.

If any lawyers are here that care about digital rights as coders then please reach out to louis because a coalition is needed to fight against C&Ds against independent, OSS, interop developers and their users.

Thank you Louis for writing this, I wish I saw this last year before nuking my OSS project out of an abundance of abject fear that this $800bn megacorp could ruin my life for what amounts to pocket change. This experience still hurts till this day.

RIP & Long Live Aaron Swartz

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#35

Post by User23 » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

mvkel wrote: post #12

Cease and desist letters are cold emails. It can scary to receive one, but once you unwind what the accusing party has to gain from it, you realize it has as much teeth as a tweet.

They can perhaps be used to establish willful infringement if it ever does go to court.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#36

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

It's sad that most people are less "legally literate" than they are "scientifically literate", when the former affects them more often throughout life. Schools should teach kids how to not get screwed over with the law. Tenants' rights in particular is very important and almost nobody I know understands them, or how brazenly landlords/management companies will rip you off if you let them.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#37

Post by codingdave » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 4:59 PM UTC

One thing to be aware of is that letters are not guarantees that they will follow up or take you to court. Especially if they have a weak case - it is just as likely to be a bluff, hoping you'll just stop because they are big and you are small.

Ask an attorney to know for sure, but if they have no case and are just being bullies, don't cave in.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#38

Post by gwright » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

mysterydip wrote: post #29

JohnFen wrote: post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

What's the proper course of action if you don't have an attorney?

I'm going to avoid the snarky "hire an attorney" answer but once you get past that necessary first step I do have a few tips:

    * get comfortable reading legal documents, this will allow you to have more
      intelligent conversations with your attorney
    * don't let your attorney make your business decisions, one of their jobs is to
      point out risks, one of your jobs (owner/ceo/leadership) is to figure out how
      to mitigate risk but that is not the same thing as avoiding all risks
    * learn to draft legalese, it will help minimize your attorney's billable hours

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#39

Post by nostromo » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

bigfatfrock wrote: post #32

JohnFen wrote: post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

Multiple C&Ds?! You make me realize I might not be living the adventure I should be.

They're usually more boring than you might realize. For example, if your new business's trademark is similar to an established company's.

Re: How to deal with receiving a cease-and-desist letter from Big Tech

#40

Post by JohnFen » Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 5:05 PM UTC

mysterydip wrote: post #29

JohnFen wrote: post #17

This is a great writeup. I am not a lawyer, but I've received several C&Ds for various things over the decades. The first one scared me to death. The second and subsequent ones did not, because I understood what they were: just the company saying "I don't like what you're doing". When I receive a C&D, the first thing I do is talk to my attorney and go over what the C&D is complaining about. If I think I'm doing somet…

What's the proper course of action if you don't have an attorney?

My main piece of advice is to get an attorney, preferably one who has experience in your industry.

They know more about how this stuff really works than you or I ever will, and you won't be able to judge what risk you're really taking without that knowledge.

But, if I were operating "without a net" like that (which I would never do!), and I really felt that the C&D was about something I wasn't doing wrong, I'd be inclined to ignore it. There's chance that you'll end up being sued, though, so you should be prepared for that possibility. That means you'll need an attorney anyway, and it will cost more than consulting one about a C&D to begin with.