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Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

nytimes.com

141–150 of 364 posts

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#141
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but in the west it is based on claim seniority rather than like, hose foreign creditors first.

No, in the US, claims are paid out based on the type of debt, outlined in the Absolute Priority Rule.

We are talking about the same concept but with different terminology. Not "No, ...".

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#142
post #79
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. It's unclear how you liquidate the parent company without liquidating subsidiaries (who is going to buy Hengda RE?) and it seems like legally the HK decision should be binding: > Hong Kong and the mainland city of Shenzhen — where Evergrande is based — have a mutual insolvency recognition agreement, but it’s “effectively inoperative” But China basically ignores HK in this.

Depends on how they operate. Selling subsidiaries as going concerns or handing their shares to creditors of the parent are often options. It's in no way a given that a subsidiary is insolvent just because the parent is. This isn't unusual. E.g. when Commodore went bankrupt several subsidiaries continued to operate as long as they had stock, and the UK subsidiary even tried to organize a buyout of its parent.

> It's in no way a given that a subsidiary is insolvent just because the parent is.

In general, sure, but in this case, no. The subsidiary has, at most, $260B of assets against $275B of debt. It's insolvent.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is two words or a phrase. Also, it is understood to refer to the names of people and not all countries are known to be liberal as some in the legal equality of incorporated entities - maybe alethonym or an orthonym. More practically, in the US the SEC could take the initiative and at least extend https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/lizarraga-statement-names... to some of the absurd ticker names especially given t…

> That is two words or a phrase. In a word: no. Specifically, it’s a compound word (singular). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics)

Since we're at "quoting wikipedia" levels of pedantry, may I point out that your article calls this a "Compound" not a "Compound word". And the statement "group of words that is not a compound is a phrase" requires that there exists a "group of words that is a compound". "If they are joined with a space (e.g. school bus, high school, lowest common denominator), then the result – at least in English[1] – may be an open compound." Here, the word "they" refers to "words", and the article does not say that such a group of words is an "open compound word".

So that is two words, that together form a Compound.

More explicitly, from the definition for "Word" [1]: "For example, ice cream, air raid shelter and get up each are generally considered to consist of more than one word (as each of the components are free forms, with the possible exception of get), and so is no one, but the similarly compounded someone and nobody are considered single words."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word#Orthography

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HK is where the foreign debt is. This is freeing the Chinese business of its obligations of $25B in foreign debt. Presumably that makes for a better business. Who knows. Evergrande could easily be worth less than -$25B. No one wants to buy a business worth negative money. But it's definitely worth less negative money now.

[flagged]

Income and expenses can be adjusted.

Your liabilities cannot.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is two words or a phrase. In a word: no. Specifically, it’s a compound word (singular). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics)

Since we're at "quoting wikipedia" levels of pedantry, may I point out that your article calls this a "Compound" not a "Compound word". And the statement "group of words that is not a compound is a phrase" requires that there exists a "group of words that is a compound". "If they are joined with a space (e.g. school bus, high school, lowest common denominator), then the result – at least in English[1] – may be an ope…

It’s an open compound word composed of individual words that aren’t used singularly, in that the meaning is changed if they are interpreted individually or singly. This isn’t an adjective phrase in this case. I don’t know who you’re trying to convince but the person I responded to is simply mistaken or ignorant of compound words and how they are used, interpreted, or referred to. The fact that open compound words are made up of parts that would be multiple words if used in a different context doesn’t change the facts of my original statement, but I do appreciate you taking the time to elucidate the point further. Nothing you have written here contradicts anything I wrote. Open compound words are considered single words lexically because the entire compound word fulfills the role of a single part of speech in a given sentence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Part_of_speech

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#146
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also means that foreign direct investments to China will dry up. However they’d likely dry up any case due to US vs. China trade war.

A little bit, maybe, but probably not entirely. The joke is that debt investors have no memory. For example, Argentina has defaulted many times in recent memory but was still able to market a 100-year bond in 2017 (which it has already defaulted on).

miohtama is actually correct.

Foreign investors have snatched back nearly 90% of the money they put into Chinese stocks this year (2023)

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/china-econom...

Foreign investment in China turns negative for first time

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Foreign-investment-in-China-...

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#148

Does anyone know a good source (news site, podcast, blogger) for info on china? Politics, economics, housing, etc.? Preferably something from a more asian centric source?

People's Daily for the Party's view and SCMP for a slightly less biased view.

There isn't really such a thing as free press covering China well, particularly in Asia. The closest thing was the Hong Kong press, but that got muzzled a few years back. RSF currently rates only Taiwan and South Korea as countries with free press in Asia, and those are not going to have the most unbiased view about China. https://rsf.org/en/region/asia-pacific

(RSF lumps Oceania in their Asia rankings, I wouldn't call Samoa or Australia Asian countries)

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#149

Does anyone know a good source (news site, podcast, blogger) for info on china? Politics, economics, housing, etc.? Preferably something from a more asian centric source?

There is usually a bloomberg reporter on Twitter giving weekly summaries like these [1]. It used to be someone else but it looks like it is this account now.

1. https://x.com/rchoongwilkins/status/1750810417260351500?s=46

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pushing the string! Can't win against demographics, young folks can't find jobs [1] and China got old fast [2]. 30% of GDP is domestic real estate that is about to fall off a cliff [3]. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/25/china-youth-unemployment-wil... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_of_China [3] https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/chart-chinas-real-estate-st...

I'm not sure why won't the old ones buy units for the young ones. Hey, they can even pool!

They do. it is said that when two people get married, they suck all the savings of the parents from both sides of the family (mostly men's side), as well as the savings of the bride/groom (mostly man), to put down deposit for one house. then it's up to the man of the house to take care of 4 parents, as well as the wife and kids. And you can imagine what happens when the man realizes the house they bought will never be finished, and is worth 50% what they bought
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