Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 364 posts

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#121

Post by loeg »

kube-system wrote: post #107
i_am_jl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very naive about all of this, can I ask what this means? Evergrande has been ordered to liquidate, on paper this means that the Chinese subsidiary Hengda must also liquidate, but China's just... not going to liquidate Hengda? So instead of Evergrande's creditors dividing up Evergrande+Hengda's assets only Evergrande's assets are going to be liquidated? If that's right, how does that work? Does Hengda get bought a…

> Does China just tell Evergrande's creditors "too bad"? In a broad sense, that's how bankruptcy works in the west too. The government has rules for who gets paid first, and everyone else is SOL.

Yeah but in the west it is based on claim seniority rather than like, hose foreign creditors first.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#122

Post by faeriechangling »

loeg wrote: post #121
kube-system wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does China just tell Evergrande's creditors "too bad"? In a broad sense, that's how bankruptcy works in the west too. The government has rules for who gets paid first, and everyone else is SOL.

Yeah but in the west it is based on claim seniority rather than like, hose foreign creditors first.

Which is why the west has been getting taken for a ride for years.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#123

Post by kube-system »

bozhark wrote: post #118
kube-system wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does China just tell Evergrande's creditors "too bad"? In a broad sense, that's how bankruptcy works in the west too. The government has rules for who gets paid first, and everyone else is SOL.

Depends on what chapter is filled and approved

Discharge can happen under both 7 and 11 which are the most common in the US. Chapter 7 is the equivalent of what is being discussed in this particular case.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#124

Post by yorwba »

berserk1010 wrote: post #92
yorwba wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's probably a dozen people reading this thread who know enough Mandarin to handle a few short Douyin videos if you could provide us with links. Though as a platform it lends itself well to amplifying extreme claims backed by speculation that play into people's fears, so unless the accounts in question have a history of well-sourced factual reporting, I'd be rather skeptical.

I'll paste one sample, it's safer 1、恒大，龙头房企，负债规模约2.6万亿，2021年9月正式宣告暴雷。 2、中梁，浙江房企，负债规模约2000亿，2022年4月公告美元债寻求展期，宣告暴雷。 3、俊发，云南房企，负债规模约1200亿，2022年4月2.19亿信托贷款未兑付，宣告暴雷。 4、融创，龙头房企，负债规模约1万亿，2022年3月美元债展期，宣告暴雷。 5、世茂，龙头房企，负债规模约4000亿，2022年3月公告60亿信托展期，宣告暴雷。 6、龙光，粤系房企，负债规模约2000亿，2022年3月公告美元债违约，宣告暴雷 7、祥生，浙江房企，负债规模约1500亿，2022年3月，1200万美元利息违约，宣告暴雷。 8、大发，上海房企，负债规模约300亿，2022年3月2228万元美元债利息无法偿还，宣告暴雷。 9、禹洲，闽系房企，负债规模约900亿，2022年3月美元债利息2125万美元违…

Thanks, I much prefer text over video anyway, and now even people who can't read Chinese can join in on the fun, though Google Translate struggles a bit with the 暴雷 slang https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9A%B4%E9%9B%B7#Verb

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#125

Post by kube-system »

loeg wrote: post #121
kube-system wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does China just tell Evergrande's creditors "too bad"? In a broad sense, that's how bankruptcy works in the west too. The government has rules for who gets paid first, and everyone else is SOL.

Yeah but in the west it is based on claim seniority rather than like, hose foreign creditors first.

No, in the US, claims are paid out based on the type of debt, outlined in the Absolute Priority Rule.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#126

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #115
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small section of a New Tier 1 city is not indicative of an entire T1 city.

Is HZ really considered a T1 city now? It is more like a rich T2 city.

According to Wikipedia it is a "New Tier 1" city. T1 is still just Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen/Guangzhou.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#127

Post by Kon-Peki »

Animats wrote: post #43

That's going to be a tough liquidation. Who wants to buy a half-finished building abandoned during construction due to lack of a market? Such things have negative value.

> Who wants to buy a half-finished building abandoned during construction

This is actually not a big deal at all if you are following modern high-rise construction techniques.

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#128

Post by Phlarp »

loeg wrote: post #45
littlestymaar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone accept your USDT and give you bitcoin if USDT is de-pegged and worthless?

De-pegged is just any value less than $1. If USDT is 50% collateralized, maybe it is worth $0.50, which is de-pegged but not worthless.

We said we were 100% collateralized, actually it's only 50% but you can trust us that it really is 50% collateralized this time and we aren't lying again. Transact with trust!

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#129

Post by littlestymaar »

loeg wrote: post #45
littlestymaar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone accept your USDT and give you bitcoin if USDT is de-pegged and worthless?

De-pegged is just any value less than $1. If USDT is 50% collateralized, maybe it is worth $0.50, which is de-pegged but not worthless.

De-pegged (I means really de-pegged, not a transient .97c a dollar on exchanges like it happened) means it's not fulfilling its promise, hence the trust is lost.

Also, Tether would try to save face, by honoring USDT redemption at 1$ as long as they can, which drains their reserves. So if they aren't able to do it anymore, it means that they don't have anything left, and USDT is now worthless.

These things are highly non-linear and bank runs can kill a bank in no time (and tether is functionally a bank).

Re: Real estate giant China Evergrande will be liquidated

#130

Post by miohtama »

chasd00 wrote: post #94
i_am_jl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very naive about all of this, can I ask what this means? Evergrande has been ordered to liquidate, on paper this means that the Chinese subsidiary Hengda must also liquidate, but China's just... not going to liquidate Hengda? So instead of Evergrande's creditors dividing up Evergrande+Hengda's assets only Evergrande's assets are going to be liquidated? If that's right, how does that work? Does Hengda get bought a…

> Does China just tell Evergrande's creditors "too bad"? that sounds inline with standard operating procedures.

It also means that foreign direct investments to China will dry up. However they’d likely dry up any case due to US vs. China trade war.
Post reply on HN