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I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

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Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#371

Post by defrost »

timschmidt wrote: post #368
lozenge wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sustainable means different things to different people. In a simulator, could you have 12 billion people with their needs met, living fulfilled lives and continuing into the far future? Yes. Is there a political and practical way to reach that state? No. "One study estimates it would take just over 5 Earths to support the human population if everyone’s consumption patterns were similar to the average American." Any U…

Earth receives more solar energy in an hour than human civilization uses in a year. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy We're not even vertically farming at scale yet. There's a lot of room left for densifying human civilization. Seems like 10x should be achievable.

> There's a lot of room left for densifying human civilization. Seems like 10x should be achievable.

Why?

Why isn't 8 billion enough? Is there a plastic ring prize if we hit 80 billion?

Or are you talking about squeezing the 8 billion we have now closer together?

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#372

Post by pvaldes »

globular-toast wrote: post #223
declan_roberts wrote: post #16

Weird. I used to worry about climate change and now I don’t. I guess the world has a way of finding its equilibrium. I do however worry about the accidental introduction of invasive species and diseases, which seems to be accelerating (see: citrus greening disease).

You won't worry about citrus greening disease soon either. You'll worry about something else, then you'll stop worrying about that too.

We can live without oranges or lemons for sure. Is just a worse life. No acting has consequences.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#373

Post by johnchristopher »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #328

I never worried particularly much about climate change, but just to hedge my bets for my kids I moved to northern Europe. For the most part it's just equated to milder (= bearable) Winters and nicer summers up here. I guess we also spend a fair bit on moving to renewables up here - Finland achieved energy self sufficiency last year thanks to a good combination of nuclear + solar + hydro. If I were an ideologue in eit…

Is Finland self sufficient for food ?

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#374

Post by ranguna »

goatlover wrote: post #344
ChatGTP wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the world has a way of finding its equilibrium. Which might mean the end of complex life forms like humans. The world does not equal civilisation.

What warming scenario on Earth would lead to the end of complex life forms? You realize that humans colonized most of the planet thousands of years ago with stone-aged technology, survived ice ages, lived in all sorts of climates? That the dinosaurs evolved on a world far warmer than we're likely to see? Complex life forms didn't all go extinct back then.

That's true, humanity might survive, but maybe you and me won't.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#376

Post by moffkalast »

pk-protect-ai wrote: post #343
hnmullany wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change is a catastrophe, but it's not going to be the apocalypse and if we keep working on mititgation, there is a good chance it will merely be a "normal" scale disaster. For example - it's possible that tundra methane emissions in many areas could be mitigated relatively quickly by the regrowth of birch and pine scrubland whose increased evapotranspiration will reduce water tables and eliminate methane emis…

What was that story about a frog which was slowly boiled in a pot and didn't know it about it until it was too late? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7069279/

Oh the frog knows in our case, it knows perfectly well. But it's so nice and warm in the pot and freezing outside, plus it's sure that if it concentrates real hard it'll come up with a solution to being cooked alive while still being able to stay in the pot.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#377

Post by brigadier132 »

globular-toast wrote: post #223
declan_roberts wrote: post #16

Weird. I used to worry about climate change and now I don’t. I guess the world has a way of finding its equilibrium. I do however worry about the accidental introduction of invasive species and diseases, which seems to be accelerating (see: citrus greening disease).

You won't worry about citrus greening disease soon either. You'll worry about something else, then you'll stop worrying about that too.

The government of Florida cut down my family's orange tree, will never forgive them.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#378

Post by timschmidt »

defrost wrote: post #371
timschmidt wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earth receives more solar energy in an hour than human civilization uses in a year. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy We're not even vertically farming at scale yet. There's a lot of room left for densifying human civilization. Seems like 10x should be achievable.

> There's a lot of room left for densifying human civilization. Seems like 10x should be achievable. Why? Why isn't 8 billion enough? Is there a plastic ring prize if we hit 80 billion? Or are you talking about squeezing the 8 billion we have now closer together?

People have children for lots of reasons. I'm probably not qualified to list them all, but I expect that people will not stop any time soon. Seems that they enjoy the process.

Perhaps consider that those 80 billion souls will contain Einsteins and Mozarts.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#379

Post by cies »

floodle wrote: post #335
cies wrote: post #251

I used to worry about climate (80s), now I dont (20s). Why? 1. Too many lies. In the 80s the water level was rising, but it didn't. Then acid rains would kill all, but did not. Then ... 2. I cannot change it. Using fossils (or other tech with big "environmental" impact) is a great way to scale business. The "economy God" is to important to actually go an fix the problem. That why we see no real solutions being implem…

> This way the market will solve the problem Capitalism has shown itself to have a complete inability to correctly price in the value of ecosystem services and the costs of environmental externalities. The profit cycle also operates on too small a timeframe for these climate issues. Thinking the market will save us is just a convienient pipe dream.

capitalism is not the same as having markets.

https://www.minorcompositions.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/1...

good book on the topic ^^^

> Thinking the market will save us is just a convienient pipe dream.

I think you should dig a little deeper into my comment before calling me out on my supposed pipe dreams.

I say taxation (which is NOT a market force, but a govt intervention in a market) can be used to then let the market fix the problem. Especially given that I also say that tax on "wholesome" things such as labour and housing should be abolished. To break it down for you: a massage these days costs, say, 50 USD for 30mins, because labour and the parlours location are expensive. For 50 USD I can order bin bags full of plastic rubbish (toys) from China (plastic, transport, im/ex, are all suuuuuuper cheap). I suggest to use taxation to the other way: make labour/housing cheap and transport/plastic expensive.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#380

Post by wkjagt »

adrianN wrote: post #301
pk-protect-ai wrote: post #145

I no longer worry. I'm extremely pessimistic about the impending climate change. I believe Sabine isn't pessimistic enough about what to anticipate. Consider the tundra methane emissions and the explosive release of methane-hydrates from the oceans, along with water vapor, a potent greenhouse gas. The disaster looming over all ecosystems (a mass extinction event) that will happen in decades and the doom-phase could l…

Humanity is quite resilient. I’m confident that we’ll survive. However I’m much more pessimistic about technological civilization surviving.

There’s more than just humans and their tech here to worry about though. I get so depressed when I hear people describe the gravity of climate change only in terms of the chance of survival of us humans.
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