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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#561

Post by charred_patina »

robertoandred wrote: post #464
charred_patina wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common sentiment I have heard in the US is that "TikTok causes antisemitism". What I believe is actually happening is that TikTok debunks a lot of Hasbara talking points about the Israeli occupation of palestine (because people can see the violence with their own eyes), but then people are not educated further about the nuances of Zionism and Judaism, the different political movements within Israel like Gush Emunim…

[flagged]

There is disinformation on TikTok. There are white supremacists and antisemites that take every Israeli conflict as an opportunity to spread their hate. This is true.

What is also true is that you can clearly see Israel conducting a genocide live, while every news outlet in the west denies it or justifies it.

I am not talking about fake news, I am talking about citizen journalists, footage of children who have been pulled out of rubble. Footage of leaflets dropped on a column of refugees. The civilian death tolls that the US confirms themselves. The harder Israel denies their atrocities, the stronger the backlash becomes when people see the truth with their own eyes.

Israel's far right and Netanyahu bear a huge amount of blame for the rise of antisemitism, because they point to these atrocities and say "this is what Jewish people globally stand for".

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/bisan-plestia-motaz-...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#562

Post by password54321 »

robertoandred wrote: post #457
password54321 wrote: post #110

[flagged]

Did you know that Israel controls a whopping 13% of Gaza's water? Maybe that wasn’t widely reported for some reason.

"After October 7, the Israeli government shut off the pipes that supply Gaza with water. It has since only resumed piping water to some parts of southern Gaza while some water has entered via Egypt, but it’s not reaching everyone and is not nearly enough to meet the needs of Gaza’s population, requiring many to rely on the local water supply."

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/16/israeli-authorities-cutt...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#563

Post by jdietrich »

Sporktacular wrote: post #428
jdietrich wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration This is not an accurate representation. Jewish people were given the legal ability to purchase land in Mandatory Palestine. The vast majority of Palestinian Arabs were tenant farmers or landless labourers. Jewish land purchases inevitably led to the displacement of these tenants, but this was the lawful outcome of a lawful land…

So what if that's true (and it's not entirely true - there was forced takeovers of land, and there continues to be land theft in the West Bank today). If I sell you my land, does that make it right for you to form a separate state with it? Perhaps I would rethink that decision with the advance knowledge of your intentions.

When Israel declared independence, that land was not governed by any state due to the withdrawal of the British Mandate. The Palestinians had previously been offered statehood through the 1947 UN Partition Plan, but had rejected it. They did not take steps to establish their own state in anticipation of the British withdrawal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_the_British_Mandate_for...

The majority of land purchases were made by the Jewish National Fund. Their aspiration to form a state was explicit and overt.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#564

Post by JumpCrisscross »

megous wrote: post #408
ajb wrote: post #36

The actual rulings can be found at https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... and a summary is: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... Dissents etc can be found in the case page: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 - in particular the opinion of Judge Aharon Barak, the Israeli ad-hoc Judge (a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have m…

Notably also voted against telling Israel to follow the raw key prohibitions of Genocide convention as written in the convention, something Israel agreed to in the past. Curious. Also voted against asking Israel to preserve evidence of the crimes. Interesting perspective for a former judge.

> Interesting perspective for a former judge

Do you have a link to Barak’s dissent on those questions?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#565

Post by rufus_foreman »

Aunche wrote: post #469
rufus_foreman wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Israel believes they are demonstrating restraint From the section of the ICJ ruling dealing with dehumanizing language used by Israeli officials: > "I have released all restraints . . . You saw what we are fighting against. We are fighting human animals" -- Mr Yoav Gallant, Defence Minister of Israel

[flagged]

I think that the statement by the head of the military that Israel is acting without any restraints is incompatible with the idea that Israel believes it is demonstrating restraint.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#566

Post by megous »

anon291 wrote: post #414

At the end of the day, the ICJ does not matter because it has no military, and the only major military power in the world, the United States of America, doesn't recognize its jurisdiction at all. Next time, they should try the Supreme Court if they actually want to make a difference (not that it'd work)

America recognizes ICJ. It even has a judge in it, which presides the court currently.

https://icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/donoghue_en.pdf

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#567

Post by golemiprague »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #535
robertoandred wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an apartheid nation. Over 20% of Israelis are Arab.

Israel also controls the lives of all Palestinians, so the total % of Arabs out of controlled citizens by the Israeli government is over 50%, but most Arabs are disenfranchised by Israel, that's the fundamental root of why it is an apartheid state

[dead]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#568

Post by anon84873628 »

lolinder wrote: post #502
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle How many wars have the US and Japan fought after WWII? Or France and Germany after WWII? How many wars have the US Government and Native Americans fought after 1900? Sometimes a clear, overwhelming victory ends cycles of violence.

Germany and Japan's peaceful modern history are less due to a clear, overwhelming victory than they were due to the recognition of an absolutely horrific chapter in their country's respective histories and a major cultural movement against the possibility of those kinds of atrocities happening again. Either country could easily come up with more than enough military might to win a war if they chose, but the horrors t…

To say it more succinctly, Axis countries clearly had a lot to gain from peace (namely stable happy lives again) and nothing to gain from further violence.

Whereas you might say that many Palestinians (specifically the ones who joined Hamas) had little to gain from the status quo, and little to lose from violence. When you are born locked in the world's largest prison, becoming a terrorist might seem appealing.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#569

Post by thsksbd »

dragonwriter wrote: post #555
thsksbd wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICJ could, however, order a ceasefire that is a freezing of the conflict. This process will take years that the Palestinians do not have.

> The ICJ could, however, order a ceasefire that is a freezing of the conflict. It could, as it did against Russia in Ukraine v. Russia (2022). But note that in Ukraine v. Russia it specifically cited the resolution adopted by the General Assembly under Uniting for Peace addressing the Russia invasion as a violation of the UN Charter as a violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of another UN member, th…

It did order Hamas to release its prisoners and not Israel, even though Hamas wasn't on trial and Israel has multiple times more children [1] in jail than all Hamas' prisoners.

Its a punt by an organization that has always been useless except to tut tut people and regimes the West doesn't like.

[1] I mean child as is used colloquially, not as "under 18" in the manner is often disingenuously used.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#570

Post by krainboltgreene »

Aunche wrote: post #345
krainboltgreene wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you expect him to do? At least as much as Ronald Regan: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/08/12/A-shocked-and-outrag...

A major difference is that Israel instigated the first large scale attacks in the 1982 War, whereas Hamas instigated the ongoing war.

This is only the interpretation if you ignore the various killings of palestinians and journalists prior to October 7th at the hands of IDF: https://cpj.org/reports/2023/05/deadly-pattern-20-journalist...

Or when Israel bombed Gaza two months after the previous cease fire: https://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-bombs-gaza-city-...

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