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> The ICJ disgraces itself condemning a nation not engaged in genocide on behalf of a nation that is. There's no condemnation in the text. It shows you didn't read the ICJ order.
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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
461–470 of 1001 posts
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#462Respectfully, would you have made the same comment about 'finding a place in your heart for the humanity of the other' if we lived during the holocaust, where 'one side' was being maimed and killed by the other, more powerful side? Would you have made the same comment if we were talking about apartheid in South Africa? How about if we were talking about how slavery ought to be stopped prior to 1865? Should we _always…
I think you're missing the point. The battle of gaza is not fought on HN. We can only comment on the situation, and we can do this with equanimity and compassion even if we disagree.
Shouldn't we all be opposed to Nazism? Shouldn't we all be against slavery? Of course. But in the present discussion, I can be opposed to the atrocities of October 7th, while being sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians, just as I can be opposed to the destruction of Gaza while having compassion for the Israelis.
Being critical of either side doesn't mean I'm against them.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#463Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.
This is a question you need to ask Jewish people, not HN. The response you'll get here obviously won't answer this question, because the people responding are either not Jewish, or the format doesn't lend itself to a genuine answer. But, a mistake you make in asking the question is two-fold, one - the Holocaust was not a lesson taught to Jews so they'll learn empathy. It was something horrible and traumatic that was…
> the Holocaust was not a lesson taught to Jews so they'll learn empathy. It was something horrible and traumatic that was done to them.
Well of course I am not suggesting that it was a lesson to teach empathy. My comment was merely that people who suffer traumas tend to have empathy for other people suffering similar traumas. I don’t think this is a particularly controversial observation.
> Two - comparing the Holocaust to what happens in Gaza means you're not aware of what the Holocaust was. Maybe you know highlights such as gas chambers etc, but not what it really was (through no fault of your own I'm sure).
Well I suppose you might be right. I’ve seen a number of the major films and documentaries and read Viktor Frankl, Eli Weisel and Anne Frank and visited Auschwitz, and I’ll be the first to admit this is merely a very basic overview of the atrocities rather than any form of academic investigation. But from this overview it seems like there are common threads of severe oppression based on immutable racial characteristics, no?
On your final paragraph, I probably would ask the same question!
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#464[flagged]
A common sentiment I have heard in the US is that "TikTok causes antisemitism". What I believe is actually happening is that TikTok debunks a lot of Hasbara talking points about the Israeli occupation of palestine (because people can see the violence with their own eyes), but then people are not educated further about the nuances of Zionism and Judaism, the different political movements within Israel like Gush Emunim…
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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
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>Sponsors nations of Israel are now been warned
Warned of what? That's what I don't understand. What possible consequences could there be for the US, UK, Germany etc.?
You can't economically sanction a majority of the world economy, you are basically just sanctioning yourself.
Not to mention what a war would look like.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#466My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin
Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246
Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important.
Quote:
"Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers."
And
"This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle."
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Spin this any way you like but The International Court of Justice said there is no genocide No, it didn't, that’s simply a lie. It said that the pleadings were sufficient plausible and that conditions present a sufficient risk of irreparable harm to warrant provisional measures against Israel. It didn't say that there is no genocide, and it didn't say that there is a genocide. The application for provisional measur…
> It didn't say that there is no genocide, and it didn't say that there is a genocide. It may change, but CURRENTLY, it does not think there's sufficient evidence to rule in favour of provisional measures, i.e., it does not think there is a genocide. Resorting to legalese isn't changing this fact.
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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#468I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…
I’m not a fan of Trump’s domestic policies, but I’m absolutely sure that he has the moral high-ground over Biden right now. Trump used to be a supporter of Israel and to some extent still is, but he did during his presidency see that the Palestinians want peace more than the other side. I can’t imagine Trump going behind Congress’ back to arm Israel as Biden has done.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-i-thought-israelis-would....
Apparently, those still supporting Biden will throw human lives under the bus for a more comfortable home life.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am so deeply disappointed in the Biden administration here. What do you expect him to do? With or without any assistance, Israel has more than enough weapons completely annihilate Gaza. Don't forget that they likely have nuclear capabilities. Israel believes they are demonstrating restraint and this restraint is the first thing to go if Israel feels like it's being backed into a corner.
>> Israel believes they are demonstrating restraint From the section of the ICJ ruling dealing with dehumanizing language used by Israeli officials: > "I have released all restraints . . . You saw what we are fighting against. We are fighting human animals" -- Mr Yoav Gallant, Defence Minister of Israel
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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
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