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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
411–420 of 1001 posts
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#412[flagged]
Both of these numbers pale in comparison to the civilian losses of Germany in WWII, and the Allies are not generally considered to have performed a genocide. Clearly the absolute number of casualties (not even civilian casualties in this case, that is allegedly more like 15k) is not sufficient on its own to define a genocide.
The raw number of people killed isn't indicative of a genocide, it's intent and actions against a specific population. Over 1.5 million (out of 2 million) Gaza residents are displaced and facing starvation. Almost all of the hospitals in Gaza have been destroyed. Many would say Israel is committing genocide and the court today said they will continue the investigation because it's plausible.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#413[flagged]
> The ICJ disgraces itself condemning a nation not engaged in genocide on behalf of a nation that is.
There's no condemnation in the text. It shows you didn't read the ICJ order.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#414At the end of the day, the ICJ does not matter because it has no military, and the only major military power in the world, the United States of America, doesn't recognize its jurisdiction at all. Next time, they should try the Supreme Court if they actually want to make a difference (not that it'd work)
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#415Glad to see Israel face some responsibility for its horrific acts against civilians. > The court ruled that Israel must do all it can to prevent genocide, including refraining from killing Palestinians or causing harm to them Sounds like a ceasefire to me. How else would they do this? Definitely not with any of the military tactics Israel is currently using.
International law regulates war, but does not entirely prohibit it (that would be futile; wars of aggression are specifically prohibited by Briand-Kellogg pact, but nowadays even aggressors try to dress the situation as justified defense and often get away with it; few wars since 1945 were tried by a competent tribunal and judged unlawful).
It isn't unlawful per se to cause civilian casualties during military operations; any demand that the warring parties limit themselves to killing combatants only would be unrealistic, especially in urban settings.
It is unlawful to target civilians intentionally or to cause wanton damage to civilian infrastructure, though.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
Barak is no fan of the current Israeli government. And they often attacked him publicly and organized demonstrations around his home. They truly sent the best international law expert the country has to offer
Not exactly. They sent the guy who controls the local judiciary because not doing so would be impossible due to his immense political power. The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself and having given itself the power to cancel any law or demand any changes to laws/policy on any arbitrary basis; since this state of affairs is backed up by a sufficient number of powerful institutions, it is effectively impos…
> The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself and having given itself the power to cancel any law or demand any changes to laws/policy on any arbitrary basis;
1. Not completely. There are quite a few countries with fully independent judiciary, with judges appointing judges.
2. Courts with power to initiate, and prosecute a case by themselves also exist in other countries.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#417[flagged]
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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not exactly. They sent the guy who controls the local judiciary because not doing so would be impossible due to his immense political power. The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself and having given itself the power to cancel any law or demand any changes to laws/policy on any arbitrary basis; since this state of affairs is backed up by a sufficient number of powerful institutions, it is effectively impos…
> The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself this is at most lie and at least misconception. Supreme Court Judges are appointed by the President of Israel, from names submitted by the Judicial Selection Committee, which is composed of nine members: three Supreme Court Judges (including the President of the Supreme Court), two cabinet ministers (one of them being the Minister of Justice), two Knesset members…
In practice, the 3 Supreme Court Judges, the two representatives of the Israel Bar Association, and the 1 Knesset member "traditionally" representing one of the two major political camps [the one aligned with most Supreme Court Judges] always vote together, so most of the judiciary is appointed according to the wishes of the Supreme Court Judges. The veto on appointing Supreme Court Judges adds a modicum of balance, but given that the country can be set on fire at will by the Supreme Court like we've seen in 2023, I don't believe that this veto is that effective at changing appointments (if an appointee is declared illegitimate by the Supreme Court, the country will be paralyzed by protests; and more prosaically, you promote to the highest court from lower courts and everyone appointed to these was appointed by a simple majority without the 7-out-of-9 veto.)
The idea that 5 out 9 people nominating judges aren't elected, directly or indirectly, is AFAIK a fairly unique Israeli invention. This is taught in schools as a good thing because there's "a majority of professionals rather than politicians." I presume that this idea is so effective and consistent with the principles of democracy that it should also work for nominating governments and lawmakers.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#419[flagged]
Fully agreed. That the ICJ didn't order a ceasefire in this matter is honestly disgusting and just shows who's lives they value more.
As an American Jew (non-religious), I cannot express enough how sad this entire situation has made me. I grew up learning about the Holocaust and learning how important it is for people to stand up when a government turns in that direction. Those morals meant I always knew that Israel was wrong in the situation with Palestine but this conflict has definitely lifted any clouds that remained on the situation.
If you don't think Israel is a pure and simple apartheid state, I would very much recommend looking up the word in a dictionary. It's horrible that anyone has died on either side, but the imbalance at the current time in lives lost is just.. saddening. When it comes to genocide, it's one of those things where you know it when you see it and if you don't see it I say open your eyes.
Israel and the west can continue to label millions of people as terrorists to justify their acts, but history will hopefully look at this event with more understanding and empathy for those people Israel have shoved into small corners and starved of resources for decades. October 7 was terrible and should not have happened, but do you blame the oppressed people or do you blame the powerful government that has oppressed them?
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's under-remarked on, but for a majority of Israeli Jewish people, the nakba era might have more immediate salience than the Holocaust. That's because they're not, as the popular imagination has it, all colonists from Europe; they're the Jewish people of the Middle East and North Africa, all of whom were forcefully expelled from their own homes after 1948. There's no question that the Holocaust has enormous salienc…
Zionists worked to recruit Jewish people from Arab nations to populate Israel. It wasn't until Zionist intervention that hostilities ramped up. Zionists even false flag attacked Iraqi Jews to help spur immigration to Israel: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iraq-jews-attacks-zionist...
This is both false and irrelevant. Anti-Jewish pograms in MENA following the Arab-Israeli war are well documented. Israel had a variety of motivations for ensuring they could comfortably resettle in Israeli territory, but that doesn't change the crisis Arab Jewish people faced in their home countries: they were forcibly expelled.
Further, it doesn't matter. Most stats I've seen suggest that the Mizrahim are at least a plurality of Israelis, and none of those people can return to their "colonialist home countries". By way of example, long before the current Gaza war, the literal first "official" action Ansar Allah took when it established control of territory in Yemen was to expel the very few remaining Jewish families.