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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#371

Post by sebzim4500 »

gambiting wrote: post #249
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the UN told the US not to go to war with Irak, they just ignored it. Those bodies have zero power and countries that want to massacre will kill no matter what.

Quite the contrary - they have all the power, they are just choosing not to use it in this case. If the court ordered a ceasefire all weapon shipments to Israel would have to stop the same day.

What does "have to" mean in this context? If the US were to sell another batch of weapons would other countries try to shoot the plane out of the air? Would they try to unilaterally sanction 30% of the world economy?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#372

Post by hypeit »

tptacek wrote: post #337
AdamH12113 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the Jewish state... its people experienced... This is your error. States and peoples are not unitary entities with a single coherent outlook and will. The vast majority of the Israeli population is far too young to have directly experienced the Holocaust, which ended 80 years ago. There are plenty of people in Israel who do not want to commit atrocities against Palestinians. There are also people who feel that…

It's under-remarked on, but for a majority of Israeli Jewish people, the nakba era might have more immediate salience than the Holocaust. That's because they're not, as the popular imagination has it, all colonists from Europe; they're the Jewish people of the Middle East and North Africa, all of whom were forcefully expelled from their own homes after 1948. There's no question that the Holocaust has enormous salienc…

Zionists worked to recruit Jewish people from Arab nations to populate Israel. It wasn't until Zionist intervention that hostilities ramped up.

Zionists even false flag attacked Iraqi Jews to help spur immigration to Israel:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iraq-jews-attacks-zionist...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#373

Post by masom »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #346
masom wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. > we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them > we have no choice but to kill them too bruh... Those are war crimes according to the UN https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

> which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; You can't just put a single civilian in every military base and be protected by international law. Collateral damage isn't necessarily a war crime.

Agreed, not saying what Hamas is doing is any good, they're also doing war crimes.

An Hospital, Red Cross camp, and other zones are not military bases.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#374

Post by tomp »

surume wrote: post #333
tomp wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there, I personally admire the work you do, I fully support Israel in it's war against evil, I hope you eradicate Hamas (ideally they would all surrender, but that's unlikely, so the other option is they get killed) as soon as you can. If you doubt any of these words, check out my tweets/likes (@tomprimozic) However, there's 3 "contentious" points that I want to ask (my go-to Jewish (& very pro-Israel) close frien…

Thank you for the kind words. Will reach out when I get home next. Been a long day - we did a big mission today and I'm wiped so please excuse the short answers. 1. Hamas was located in a significant want under Al-shifa. Israel released video of our commando unit raiding it. You can find that video online. Hard to watch. 2. Because they're angry and they're being stupid and reacting emotionally. Please understand, th…

1. and 2. make sense, thank you for your reply, especially given you've more important things to worry about!

regarding 3: I don't want to get into the "who's land it is" debate (I generally agree with your description from a historical perspective, but I also think that historical perspective is largely irrelevant).

But mostly a practical issue: why wasn't it (with the exception of Jerusalem and some other Jewish "holy" sites) treated more like Gaza (i.e. withdrawal, as opposed to building of more settlements)?

Obviously that wouldn't satisfy everyone everywhere (especially not the "open air prison" crowd) but I think it would have given Israel much more legitimacy - one of the crucial criticisms in the past few years was "taking Palestinian land to build Israeli settlements".

What I'm trying to understand, is why they did that? Probably not for the lack of land. Nationalist reasons? Maybe, but I don't see the potential massive gain there, to offset the (IMO) massive loss in internaional reputation from "occupying West Bank".

And in addition it would defuse at least a part of Hamas's justification for the Oct7 attack (the other, the Al Aqsa issue, obviously being fake, and of course that old "hate Jews" motivation wouldn't go away...).

Anyways I completely understand if you'd rather not have this discussion, I still hope you win soon!

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#376

Post by Beefin »

1letterunixname wrote: post #147

ICJ didn't reach any conclusions or positions except that IDF needs to be careful. No call for a ceasefire. I'm curious what people in Tel Aviv see in media. In America, it's wall-to-wall "police say"-like IDF clips and Bill Maher condemnation, dehumanization, and equivocating Palestine supporters with Hamas terrorists. The talking heads cheerfully greet Netanyahu.

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#377

Post by glass_saturn »

Respectfully, would you have made the same comment about 'finding a place in your heart for the humanity of the other' if we lived during the holocaust, where 'one side' was being maimed and killed by the other, more powerful side?

Would you have made the same comment if we were talking about apartheid in South Africa?

How about if we were talking about how slavery ought to be stopped prior to 1865?

Should we _always_ be looking to find the humanity in the other side, or is there something fundamentally different here?

Not trying to disrespect anyone here, but sometimes we need to ask ourselves tough questions.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#378

Post by Mandain62 »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #350
Sporktacular wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe 695 Israeli civilians, 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139? They're all numbers from the Israeli government. Weird how only disputing the Hamas numbers as biased is a talking point.

It is way easier to verify those numbers though, there is an actual list of names and journalists can (and have) talk to the families etc.

And from talking to families and people on the ground there there are some reports that IDF killed many Isreali civilians on that day [1]. The extent is not obvious without independent investigation of course.

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-mistakenly-hit-festival-...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#379

Post by ajb »

yosefk wrote: post #368
shmatt wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barak is no fan of the current Israeli government. And they often attacked him publicly and organized demonstrations around his home. They truly sent the best international law expert the country has to offer

Not exactly. They sent the guy who controls the local judiciary because not doing so would be impossible due to his immense political power. The Israeli judiciary is unique in nominating itself and having given itself the power to cancel any law or demand any changes to laws/policy on any arbitrary basis; since this state of affairs is backed up by a sufficient number of powerful institutions, it is effectively impos…

Don't quite understand that? Aharon Barak was chief justice, but retired in 2006 and is 87 years old.
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