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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#151

Post by 127 »

Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

You really think China wants to create a precedent where a foreign power comes and helps a smaller region to deter a bigger aggressor, with military force? I find that highly unlikely.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#152

Post by wk_end »

smoothjazz wrote: post #7
voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

This isn't an accurate accounting of history.

Zionists were living in the area long before British Mandatory Palestine or the Balfour Declaration - they bought land and legitimately immigrated there while it was under control of the Ottoman Empire. The UN chose to partition the region in 1947 due to ongoing violence on both sides - and the British actually voted against it I believe. The Arab states then chose to go to war against the newly formed Israel - not the other way around, as your comment implies.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#153

Post by falserum »

shkkmo wrote: post #142
biorach wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems far fetched given China's traditional insistence that countries' internal affairs should not be subject to external overview, it's undeclared stance that subject populations should be suppressed by whatever means necessary and the still marginal effect of the conflict on its trade.

I don't see how military operations outside of a country's legal territory is considered an "internal affair"

Gaza is kind of/maybe/sometimes/by some considered part ofisrael.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#155

Post by skrebbel »

Izikiel43 wrote: post #131
skrebbel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily I don’t understand why people think this is a good argument. Lots and lots of places shifted in control since 1948. Poland moved half a country to the left, world empires got decolonized, India and Pakistan split and then the latter split once more, all with enormous population…

[flagged]

They can handle them, plenty lycans in Hungary proper.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#156

Post by vladgur »

smoothjazz wrote: post #127
skrebbel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily I don’t understand why people think this is a good argument. Lots and lots of places shifted in control since 1948. Poland moved half a country to the left, world empires got decolonized, India and Pakistan split and then the latter split once more, all with enormous population…

Forcing people off of their land is the definition of ethnic cleansing and I don't think that's ever ok nor generally accepted in the world. I think Israel is a lot like apartheid South Africa. You can end the apartheid government and start making reparations, including land back to the native inhabitants.

Are you aware of any laws in Israel that discriminate against non-Jews?

Note: Gaza and West Bank are not Israel.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#157

Post by criddell »

Manuel_D wrote: post #120
Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

Amphibious landings are highly vulnerable, and almost impossible to pull off without air superiority. What gives the impression that China's amphibious landing ships are resistant to anti-shipping missiles? Every article on modern naval combat I've read highlights just how vulnerable surface vessels are to attack, and how crucial it is to keep them out of range. I am incredibly dubious that China would land military…

Do you think Israel would fire on those ships?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#158

Post by throwaway260124 »

ajb wrote: post #36

The actual rulings can be found at https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... and a summary is: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... Dissents etc can be found in the case page: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 - in particular the opinion of Judge Aharon Barak, the Israeli ad-hoc Judge (a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have m…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#159

Post by thiagoharry »

adwn wrote: post #129
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #71

I usually refrain from making much political commentary. I will say this: SA is a deeply troubled country, but for once I think the ruling government has actually done a good thing by pursuing this.

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Well, we could conclude with this logic that all countries are politically motivated. After all, the countries that condemned the Russia's invasion of Ukraine were also the countries that abstained from supporting the South Africa’s genocide case against Israel.

Moreover, it should not be forgotten that there is a much bigger number of civilians deaths in Gaza than Ukraine. In one month the number of deaths surpassed civilian casualties in Ukraine war. There is a more serious problem there than in Ukraine.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#160

Post by shmerl »

someotherperson wrote: post #126
shmerl wrote: post #27

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It doesn't. Mosul's civilian population were Iraqi citizens, the conflict was much larger, lasted a lot longer, used smaller munitions, resulted in a lot more military deaths and significantly less civilian deaths. This is despite the enemy being significantly better trained, better equipped, better logistics, years of preparation and less intelligence by the anti-ISIL coalition.

> resulted in a lot more military deaths

Yeah, they lost a lot of infantry forces and it's probably the reason there were less civilian deaths.

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