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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#111

Post by WhyNotHugo »

Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

They might look like "the good guys" by doing that, but they'd also be dragging themselves into an open war Israel (and its allies). I'm not sure that would be a smart move.

I'm also unsure if this move would be seen well domestically. They have enough problems right now, and focusing resources on this doesn't sound like it would be met with high praise.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#112

Post by johnnyworker »

exe34 wrote: post #89
hackerlight wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. That's part of why they're acting this way. Security fears. I'm telling you, the median Israeli isn't motivated by bloodlust or a desire for land, they're motivated by a high level of fear that they will one day be killed by Hamas/Hezbollah/etc. That fear causes them to demand complete "security control" o…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#113

Post by harpiaharpyja »

skrebbel wrote: post #58
smoothjazz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

> When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily I don’t understand why people think this is a good argument. Lots and lots of places shifted in control since 1948. Poland moved half a country to the left, world empires got decolonized, India and Pakistan split and then the latter split once more, all with enormous population…

Thank you for bringing some perspective to the discussion, because there are so many counterexamples to the GP post.

Karelia is another one. Whether or not such situations are resolvable peacefully is entirely up to the nations involved.

I don't see why revanchism gets a free pass in the specific case of the Palestinians.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#114

Post by bawolff »

shmatt wrote: post #30
smoothjazz wrote: post #2

Glad to see Israel face some responsibility for its horrific acts against civilians. > The court ruled that Israel must do all it can to prevent genocide, including refraining from killing Palestinians or causing harm to them Sounds like a ceasefire to me. How else would they do this? Definitely not with any of the military tactics Israel is currently using.

Except SA specifically asked the court to require a ceasefire, which would have immediate consequences via security council vote and no more munitions landing in Israel. And the judges voted it down This isn't a read between the lines situation, because SA's request was specifically for the court to temporarily rule for a full immediate ceasefire until the larger case could be heard What is interesting here is that b…

From what i understand, the ceasefire was an extreme long shot by south africa and nobody really expected the icj to grant it. Particularly because the court cant order hamas to do anything and a one sided cease fire seems kind of unreasonable, but also the right to self defense is pretty fundamental in international law.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#116

Post by StriverGuy »

aaomidi wrote: post #77

I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…

Does Hamas have to adhere to an ICJ ordered ceasefire?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#117

Post by biorach »

Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

This seems far fetched given China's traditional insistence that countries' internal affairs should not be subject to external overview, it's undeclared stance that subject populations should be suppressed by whatever means necessary and the still marginal effect of the conflict on its trade.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#118

Post by bdcravens »

golf_mike wrote: post #28

How is this hackernews?

How is anything? One could argue that real estate occupancy in San Francisco isn't hackernews.

I think there's an intellectual interest here, but the line is very blurry with politics. It's probably as blurry as the articles posted about US being a surveillance state, cryptocurrency articles unrelated to the technology itself, etc.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#119

Post by throwaway55479 »

bsaul wrote: post #68
throwaway55479 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel's tactic has always been deterrence: I will inflict you so much pain that you will think twice before doing this again. Despite being proven wrong, a "realist politician' will automatically think of adding more (and then some) deterrence as the only solution. I remember 20 years ago, during the first bombing of Gaza, they hit just ONE building and felt pressured enough to apologize for the handful of civilian…

Note that the least you can say is that escalation is happening on both sides. Oct 7 level of atrocities has never been seen before in israel.

Yes. That is why I said: faced with larger threats

What I can add is that this is indeed not just a "larger" threat for them. It "activated" a millennium-deep Jewish trauma (through pogroms up to the Holocaust). Deep, very deep.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#120

Post by Manuel_D »

Animats wrote: post #98

There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…

Amphibious landings are highly vulnerable, and almost impossible to pull off without air superiority. What gives the impression that China's amphibious landing ships are resistant to anti-shipping missiles? Every article on modern naval combat I've read highlights just how vulnerable surface vessels are to attack, and how crucial it is to keep them out of range. I am incredibly dubious that China would land military ships in Gaza.
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