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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#21
post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

Depends of the lesson you took from it.

If the lesson is "Everybody wants to kill us and the only solution to safety is to have a nation state and defend at all costs against any other group", well it just all make sense. Of course this is not the conclusion of every jew in the world but I fully expect it to be the conclusion of post WWII zionists, even though it was not the case for a lot of them that were influenced by socialist ideas but lost influence and power with time.

Of course the strategy of always planning for aggression in order to come up on top is somewhat self realizing in that defending your dominant position will necessarily mean abuses of power and resistance to it.

So the lesson is "Better safe than sorry" although it's not that simple because there is actually a safety cost to pay to maintain such a strategy.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#22
post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

[deleted]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: The title has been changed since and the discussion has been unflagged The problem is that this is such a partisan issue than partisanship can be perceived in the smallest of details. As someone who was staunchly pro-palestinian but as of recently came to have a more informed and I hope a more nuanced view of the whole situation, I can't help to see the title as potentially misleading : Is the ICJ saying to pre…

Isn't this the kind of discussion we should be having though? Why flag it?

I definitely think this is a discussion we should have and I am actually pleasantly surprised by the kind of comments I have read so far in that they are not unhinged even though I may disagree with some of them.

I have not flagged it personally but I understand why someone would. I was just responding on "Couldn't this be the one discussion ?" and I think it's not, for the reasons above.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#25
All: if you're going to post in this thread, please make sure you're up on the site guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and that your comment is strictly within them.

That especially means two things here: being kind, and not using the thread to do battle. If you're not able to stick to that, that's fine, but in that case please don't post.

What does be kind mean in a context like this? Many things, but here's one in my view: it means finding a place in your heart for the humanity of the other—whoever the other happens to be for you.

That isn't easy but it's the spirit we want here. If you can't find it in yourself, that's understandable, but on this topic, please only post if you can.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

I have read a bit about this and I understand the explanation but I still don’t understand how a group of people subject to genocide can turn around and a few generations later be behaving in many (obviously not all) of the same ways toward another group. I would think that if anything the Israeli people would have some empathy and try to find a two state solution that exists in peace.

There are many Jewish people, born in Israel and outside of Israel, who do long for a two-state solution or a one-state solution where everyone lives as equals. But sadly those are not the people who hold political or military power.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#30

Glad to see Israel face some responsibility for its horrific acts against civilians. > The court ruled that Israel must do all it can to prevent genocide, including refraining from killing Palestinians or causing harm to them Sounds like a ceasefire to me. How else would they do this? Definitely not with any of the military tactics Israel is currently using.

Except SA specifically asked the court to require a ceasefire, which would have immediate consequences via security council vote and no more munitions landing in Israel. And the judges voted it down

This isn't a read between the lines situation, because SA's request was specifically for the court to temporarily rule for a full immediate ceasefire until the larger case could be heard

What is interesting here is that by mis-reading the verdict like yourself, and Israel assuming the worst, both sides immediately came out saying today was a huge win. So at least we have that, everyone (but the Palestinians, who aren't a side in this case) is happy

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