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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#41

Post by ComputerGuru »

ajb wrote: post #36

The actual rulings can be found at https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... and a summary is: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... Dissents etc can be found in the case page: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 - in particular the opinion of Judge Aharon Barak, the Israeli ad-hoc Judge (a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have m…

An important part of Barak’s involvement is the complete recognition of ICJ’s jurisdiction over the matter, which it found (and Barak didn’t disagree) it had.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#44

Post by ilikehurdles »

voisin wrote: post #13
smoothjazz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about religion, it's about occupation. Zionists got permission to occupy the land from the British with The Balfour Declaration then started the invasion in full in 1948 with Nakba. When you occupy someone's land, there can never be peace until they get their land back or are fully exterminated or controlled militarily. This is why colonization most often leads to genocide or permanent apartheid.

I have read a bit about this and I understand the explanation but I still don’t understand how a group of people subject to genocide can turn around and a few generations later be behaving in many (obviously not all) of the same ways toward another group. I would think that if anything the Israeli people would have some empathy and try to find a two state solution that exists in peace.

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#45

Post by ajb »

dang wrote: post #34
ajb wrote: post #26

The current title "ICJ genocide case: World court demands Israel limit deaths " isn't very accurate. I'd suggest reverting to the original "Top UN court orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza but stops short of ordering cease-fire"

It's the HTML doc title of the article, which is always an option for "original title" in the guidelines' sense of that term ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). What's inaccurate about it? (Btw - thank you for posting the links in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39146163 . We need those.)

Huh, firefox no longer displays that! I didn't realize that before.

Well, there is already discussion of the meaning of Measure 1) "take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular" part a) "killing members of the group", at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39143094, so perhaps the confusion can be worked out there. I don't think it's as simple as "limit deaths" but perhaps I'm wrong, not being a lawyer.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#46

Post by ComputerGuru »

tycho-newman wrote: post #3

Under the Rome Statute that set up the international criminal court, apartheid is defined as a crime where: >inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them". Netanyahu's approach to the Palestinians likely fits into this definition.

Important to understand that Israel is not a signatory to the Rome Statute and rejects the ICC’s jurisdiction (neither is the USA). On the other hand, the Geneva Convention is about as “universal” a treaty as you can find, Israel itself ratified the GV without any reservations, all UN members (US and Israel included) are subject to the authority of the ICJ/World Court, and there’s even a fsir consensus that the GC applies to everyone, even if a state weren’t a UN member and signatory.

(While the USA and Israel have shown immense disdain for the ICC and the USA has levied sanctions against it, its chief prosecutor, and The Hague in the past, the US officially sponsored Khan’s nomination for the post of chief prosecutor this past round and Israel has been extremely chummy with him and the ICC compared to under Bensouda. The ICC under Khan hasn’t done anything about Gaza.)

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#47

Post by dang »

solatic wrote: post #40
smoothjazz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this the kind of discussion we should be having though? Why flag it?

This is Hacker News. Technology, science, business, not politics and certainly not geopolitics. There are many discussions worth having, not all discussions worth having should be on HN.

This of course comes up a lot, but the answer has been stable for many years. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39146184 for more information.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#48

Post by tehjoker »

voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

Zionism is an ideology that took inspiration from the British empire. It was intended to be "something colonial" and pre-dated the atrocities of WW2. The fascist atrocities in WW2 can be interpreted as colonial tactics applied to Europeans, after all the British had been doing extremely bloody concentration camps in Africa and starved India during WW2. For some reason, Africa doesn't get the same play. I wonder why.

So people that engage in colonialism end up doing similar crimes. Israel remains probably the only old school colonial project in the present day with present day technology, backed by the U.S. empire to secure geopolitical interests in the oil-rich region among other things.

Something to think about: America is also a genocidal settler-colonial project and is one of the only nations to back Israel in the UN. Our genocide is still ongoing: visit a native american reservation and witness the immense poverty. Similarly to Gaza, the US state will simply say that despite being an occupying power, these are autonomous zones and we have little responsibility.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#49

Post by hackerlight »

voisin wrote: post #6

Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.

> after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians.

That's part of why they're acting this way. Security fears. I'm telling you, the median Israeli isn't motivated by bloodlust or a desire for land, they're motivated by a high level of fear that they will one day be killed by Hamas/Hezbollah/etc. That fear causes them to demand complete "security control" of the West Bank and Gaza. That fear explains why they would not budge on allowing Palestinians an army as part of previous two-state negotiations. That fear explains why they would give back the Sinai but not the geographical high ground of the Golan Heights. That fear explains why the Israeli Left completely collapsed after the Second Intifada. They're happy to give part of the West Bank back in two state negotiations, but they would never, ever, allow Palestine an army. Because of security fears. The Palestine-Israeli conflict is this positive feedback loop caused by a desire for security conflicting with a desire for freedom. We're in the terminal doom spiral phase of this feedback loop right now.

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