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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#971

Post by ncallaway »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #92
ncallaway wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in a regular browser you can make purchases on Amazon like normal. If you attempt to purchase a kindle book from within the kindle app, you will not be able to. Nor will there be any messaging explaining how to make a purchase (because apple does not allow such messaging). You’ll just be mysteriously confused about why you can’t buy a book.

Why can I buy an Audible audiobook directly in the app on iOS (and for cheaper than listed on Amazon), but not a Kindle book?

Someone in Amazon probably decided that Audible's unit economics could afford to take a 30% cut, while Kindle's could not.

I'm not surprised, since you can often buy a Kindle + Audible book for cheaper than buying the Audible book alone.

If you look at the Audible book (such as Wool https://www.audible.com/pd/Wool-Audiobook/B0BKR3Y6SP) the price is often higher than if you look at the Kindle book price, and adding the Audible narration (https://www.amazon.com/Wool-Hugh-Howey-ebook/dp/B088SY4GSD).

In the Wool example, the Audible book is $31.64, but the Kindle book with the audible add-on is $9.48 ($1.99 + $7.49). Even if the Kindle book was selling for "list price", it would still be cheaper at $27.48.

So, I'm guessing there's just a lot less margin headroom to eat a 30% cut on Kindle prices, but plenty to eat that on Audible's prices.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#972

Post by AlwaysRock »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #829
AlwaysRock wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt defend 30% specifically but surely they should get some cut or share. What is the right number? 1%? 50%? I don't know. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Kind of an odd take. They take a cut because they provide a service. They are not stealing. I guess lump me in with the defending apple cro…

Does windows deserve 30%? what about your isp? Or your motherboard manufacturer? What about nvidia? Should every single company providing you software or hardware take a cut, or only apple? We should own our own computers

I pay windows a fee to use their OS. I'm guessing they take a cut of anything sold via microsoft store as well. My ISP gets a fee for its service. My motherboard was paid for. Nvidia card was paid for.

I don't know exactly how every store works but doesnt every digital store, and non digital store, take a cut of what they sell?

I agree with the fact that we should own our own computers but you do own your iphone. You can jailbreak it and do whatever you want with it. You can even sideload apps, like altstore, through an incredible tedious process.

It sucks that Apple doesnt make this easier to do but that is another topic... Right?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#973

Post by AlwaysRock »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #821
AlwaysRock wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt defend 30% specifically but surely they should get some cut or share. What is the right number? 1%? 50%? I don't know. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Kind of an odd take. They take a cut because they provide a service. They are not stealing. I guess lump me in with the defending apple cro…

only in tech... can you imagine if selling a replacement bulb for a ford headlight required you to pay 30% to ford. only in tech can this be considered fair.

I pay ford, or some other distributor, 100% of the cost of the replacement bulb plus whatever their markup is when I purchase it.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#974

Post by AlwaysRock »

linuxhansl wrote: post #836
AlwaysRock wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt defend 30% specifically but surely they should get some cut or share. What is the right number? 1%? 50%? I don't know. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Kind of an odd take. They take a cut because they provide a service. They are not stealing. I guess lump me in with the defending apple cro…

Seems to me the range of what a credit card charges would seem sensible. I.e. 3-7%. Alternatively charge 30% but be forced to allow side-installing Apps. That way developers can decide if they want the convenience and reach of the AppStore or not.

Sure. I think side loading is the best options or allowing another way to pay where apple takes a lower cut makes sense. I'd argue that credit card companies are doing a lot less than a marketplace? But again... How do you come up with a number that really makes sense? Apple is just going to charge whatever they can until they are told they have to change.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#975

Post by flemhans »

tcmart14 wrote: post #959
georgeecollins wrote: post #934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with case (3) there are many companies that would love to be the store / portal that you discover and new purchase apps through (with all the security and testing Apple requires) for less then a 30% cut. But Apple won't let them. It's clearly a price set without competition. Keep in mind Apple sells advertising in the App Store. They make $ beyond just the 30%. Disclosure: I am APPL shareholder and sometimes app…

I'd be really skeptical that there exists companies who would love to be the portal for a smaller cut then Apple. At least longer term. I can see someone, just to get their platform off the ground, trying undercut for a little while. But 30% is sort of like an industry standard. Google takes 30%. There are alternative app stores for Google, but really how prevalent are they and are they really worth mentioning. Ninte…

I'd do it for 1-2%

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#976

Post by SixDouble5321 »

guax wrote: post #466
toasterlovin wrote: post #258

Some perspective: we sell on Amazon as a 3rd party seller. Amazon takes about 9% of the sale price of our products as their commission (it’s actually 12%, but includes credit card processing). To which you might be inclined to reply, “Ah, but 9% is a reasonable commission, so that’s okay.” But we sell physical goods, which cost money to produce. It’s typical for our products to have 20-25% gross margins. So as a shar…

I think the difference is that amazon is not a platform. You sell on Amazon because it is where everyone is and they did that by burning lots and lots of cash to ensure everyone margins cannot be larger than a paper atom. Now that they're trying to capitalize on it they're becoming worse as a store and I can't remember last time I used them (in NL). If you buy an iphone there is no one to compete, Apple does not have…

> Amazon... ...does not care if you sell cheaper elsewhere

I can't find a good source for it, but Amazon is very sensitive to prices for the same goods on other sites. My understanding is they automatically match lowered prices on a number of competitors. They are also getting sued by the FTC[1] for punishing sellers that sell lower elsewhere.

1. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-amazon-forces-customers-...

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#977

Post by squigglydonut »

sccxy wrote: post #963
squigglydonut wrote: post #842

I designed and built my PWA. You just have to define a manifest and set an empty service worker. Boom now your mobile responsive app is a PWA. PWA can look exactly like native app if you are careful with the design. There are navigation patterns that users expect. Make sure to dial in the information hierarchy and design modals correctly. Use familiar iconography and use type that works at small point sizes. This is…

Some recent iOS PWA bugs: Dark/light mode switching does not work Wake Lock API does not work These features work in browser.

No, dark and light mode does work. I haven't used wake lock api so can't check.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#978

Post by sccxy »

squigglydonut wrote: post #977
sccxy wrote: post #963

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some recent iOS PWA bugs: Dark/light mode switching does not work Wake Lock API does not work These features work in browser.

No, dark and light mode does work. I haven't used wake lock api so can't check.

Dark/light mode is broken from iOS 17.2+

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=266853

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#979

Post by qarl »

radley wrote: post #39

There's a strong chance this will be shot down as "bad-faith" compliance. Rumor is Epic will quickly contest it [Update: confirmed] https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/174740814726057173...

I'd love to hear your reasoning for why there is a strong chance this will be struck down.

The court didn't rule against the Apple Tax, just on the monopoly for payment provider. I understand that many people misunderstand this point, but that does not change it.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#980

Post by bluefirebrand »

qarl wrote: post #979
radley wrote: post #39

There's a strong chance this will be shot down as "bad-faith" compliance. Rumor is Epic will quickly contest it [Update: confirmed] https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/174740814726057173...

I'd love to hear your reasoning for why there is a strong chance this will be struck down. The court didn't rule against the Apple Tax, just on the monopoly for payment provider. I understand that many people misunderstand this point, but that does not change it.

The Apple Tax is very clearly tied to the app store though.

By trying to make it apply to apps purchased on other stores, they are essentially saying they have a right to add a commission fee to any transaction involving Apps that happens on an Apple Device, which seems like an overreach to me.

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